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EOWG Minutes, January 19, 2001


Outreach Updates

CL: On Tuesday, in Manitoba he gave a talk on Web accessibility and WAI following suggestions in training resource suite. It went over well. He will go back to give a full course later on. Provincial government and local disability community were invited. There is great demand for Web accessibility training. He attended a meeting in Ottawa with government officials. Their next meeting will be at CSUN. He is working on getting high tech community to be involved.

JB: International Coalition of Access Engineers and Specialists (ICAES) may have some similar focus. Its board is made up of former board members who left NARTE-AAES.

CL: Would like to coordinate.

LL: Will we get some notification about this new organization?

JB: Publicity will be forthcoming.

MU: Many people in North Carolina are looking at developing accessible forms. Mark Urban worked with them to look at authoring tools guidelines.

HB: Last week was first public showing of a digital talking book, version 3. It was Martin Luther King's speech, "I've Got a Dream." URL:

WL: Was the Yuri Rubinsky video (as shown at XML 2000) captioned and put on Web?

HB: Not yet.

JB: Judy and Daniel Dardailler met with representatives of European Commission in Brussels, and representatives of Information Technology ministries from European Union Member States. The slides presented will be put on W3C Web site soon. Focus is on E-Europe Initiative. They have targets to adopt WCAG 1.0 in EU Member States by the end of 2001. This means that they will be required to put in place policies or, in some countries, implement Web accessibility. Some countries are already moving ahead with this. A number of countries already have substantial experience. Another meeting, held at the same time, was with European Disability Forum (EDF). Gave brief presentation to them too. There had been a breakout session on progress on Web accessibility. Several countries were doing well on Web accessibility; interesting to compare based on strategies those countries are already using.

JB: (Someone mentioned Judy's chapter in User Interfaces for All) Judy wonders whether this is outdated now. She is also working on another chapter on universal design with Elaine Ostroff; McGraw Hill will publish.

CV: Can you give us a list of attendees of the EU meeting, especially from Germany and Spain?

JB: Christian Buehler represented Germany. Can't recall the Spanish representatives.

CV: Will check with Ima Placencia.

HB: Did you get policy pointers?

JB: Most of what they said we already knew about. More may be developed this year and we will add policy pointers as we become aware of those. Officials from Spain were concerned about translations. Judy would have liked to emphasize availability of translations more. She will be following up.

JB: Judy would like to update the document status of How People With Disabilities Use the Web. She hopes to finish edits within the next week and get it out for review. She wants to clean up acknowledgements section. Would like to distinguish between author and contributor categories. Hopes to do this in the coming weeks.

WL: WCAG 2.0 draft will be forthcoming. This draft refers to How People With Disabilities Use the Web document.

JB: Will be posting URL for the EC presentation to the list.

[Scribe LC: leaving, HB: continuing the minutes.]

Quick Tips Card

WL: Have to start talking in parallel with WCAG group. Need to develop more general and abstract Quick Tips, to match their new version.

JB: Internal issue in W3C -- need to change two tips to make more consistent with XHTML: (element names need to become lowercase, not uppercase.) In XHTML, uppercase is wrong, even though HTML was case-insensitive. So for consistency, these need reformatting with lowercase boldface. Possibly add the word element after MAP and NOFRAMES, e.g. Image maps MAP becomes map element Frames NOFRAMES becomes noframes element

JB: But removing the caps has a ripple effects, if suffix with element, it blows layout, as adds another line.

WL: Given WCAG 2.0, the card will need reformatting anyway.

CL: These are marketing tools, not working tools. So what difference does it make?

CV: Suggest courier for MAP and NOFRAMES.

HBj: The international versions will diverge?

JB: Daniel Dardailler has already updated the I18N versions to be consistent. Some errors have been removed as well.

JB: Possibly use a code font for both attributes and elements. (or a serif font that can still be proportional space.)

WL: Opposes any change, as information is OK. We don't know all the implications. Current one is not broken. It does not need to match XHTML.

JB: Request from others in W3C to upgrade for XHTML. Minimal change, just make lowercase bold.

GL: How about using angle brackets?

JB: Changes the tone of the card to even more code-like.

HB: No, as would be incomplete without attributes.

JB: Preferences among

  1. add the word "element" after MAP and NOFRAMES -- problem is that it breaks layout
  2. drop small caps to lowercase and leave bold -- problem is that doesn't stand out
  3. change font for code-type -- monospace serif, such as courier
  4. leave as is -- problem, internal dissension.

Most in favor of changing to code typeface (option #2), and if that doesn't work, leave as is (option #4).

AC: This is educational, not technical.

HB: Go with lowercase, a way of the future.

JB: Agreed: Ask printer to change font subtly so words would support lowercase. If not work, leave as is.

JB: Thanks again to HB for the card idea.

HB: Will bring the original source for the idea, the Vade Mecum APL Card by Ken Iverson to show at W3C Meeting.

JB: Placing order for 250,000 more, requests continue to escalate. Don't want others to print their own, as lose quality control. May do "at cost" distribution for significant quantities.

WAI Home Page

JB: Home page reference links (policy, event) are all indirect. The Resources (right-hand column) pointers each go to a section of the resources page

WL: Keep the two-jump model, one-jump requestors should "get a life."

HB: The order differs from that on the resources page. Translations in particular.

JB: Agree that translations need to be highlighted more.

HBj: Where will How People with Disabilities Use the Web go?

CL: Put in introductions.

HBj: Need to update upcoming items. WAI Meeting, Sat Mar 24, Sun Mar 25, CSUN Los Angeles CA

JB: WG Saturday afternoon. Then panel and open-house on WCAG 2.0 Q&A.

JB: EO Face-to-face Sunday after CSUN,

Aids, Not Solutions

JB: Scenario from Jonathan Chetwynd (JC) email of Jan 6, "Aids, not Solutions." WL: Struck by significance of "reading age of a four-year old."

HB: It seems so different from other models.

HBj: It currently has a much longer description of the disability,

AC: Example not mainstream. Suggest it needs more fully fleshed out.

WL: This is reason to expand our scope.

HB: Does this suggest some user reading level-based conditioning of what gets delivered?

JB: Content negotiation for level of delivery is not ready.

JB: Greg Vanderheiden has done kiosk proof of concept demo, but not yet deployment, with infrared connection to portable braille devices.

WL: Implementations proceeding in Japan, with Web-based kiosks.

AC: Web-related stuff is lost in JC writeup. "Links with stars on them."

JB: Concern: need to reframe JC example. Currently all scenarios are geared to universal design for accessibility, not special web sites. This scenario as-is might be read as needing to totally simplify all Web sites, which is not what WAI says. But the focus could be on how to use accessibility for tailoring to users needing lots of graphics. Parts of JC example, sites with lots of graphics, can help. Intersection of this person's needs and how some mainstream sites can be designed.

WL: Willing to take the time to rework the idea.

AC: Downplay design for the specific audience, emphasize the universal design.

JB: Will try to adapt, will await WL input.

WL: Whole subject has been highlighted thanks to JC's scenario.

JB: Others have raised this as well.

HBj: Ask JB to recast it.

HS: Ability to benefit from image-intensive sites.

WL: Maintain the "frustration index" that is evident.

HB: Maintain the alt texts for each image, so that concurrently another differently limited user can share the document.

JB: Will try, using WL draft, it may not fit with the others.


JB: Flyer page now pointed to from first paragraph within -- a literature stuffer

JB: The original with the two tear-off tips cards was very expensive, as it had two-directional perforations, was hard to find a printer to do it.

JB: Want to simplify its content. Will be sending around shortened versions for comment. Then will work with designer to make print page more attractive.

HBj: A4?

JB: A4 format too, and translations.

Business Case

JB: Business case table of contents has been restructured.

JB: Point to implementation section of slides for Europe. [will send pointer to these slides when publicly available]

JB: Implementation planning needs emphasis in business case.

Next Meetings

JB: Next Week: 2001-01-26

JB traveling, hopes to have meeting anyway. Will know by Monday.

JB: Will meet 2001-02-02.

Who Can Help Make Web Sites Accessible?

LL: Requests to recommend company to make Web sites accessible.

JB: W3C has no way to publicly recommend at this point.

JB: We can talk at face-to-face in March about this. Recommendations on how to review web sites. That would give some quality checks.

LL: 508 is raising attention.

JB: W3C may be able to establish some criteria, but cannot certify companies at this point.

End: 10:18 a.m. US EST.

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