Chatlog 2009-04-22

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13:42:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:42:04 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:42:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:42:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xhtml
13:42:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
13:42:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:42:09 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
13:42:09 <trackbot> Date - 22 April 2009
13:42:21 <Roland> Agenda:
13:42:27 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:42:49 <Tina> I sent a regret message (no voice).
13:43:06 <Tina> It appears it got lost somewhere in the W3C mailing list system.
13:44:00 <oedipus_away> oedipus_away has joined #xhtml
13:44:42 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:44:49 <Zakim> +Roland
13:44:51 <Steven> Steven has joined #xhtml
13:44:53 <Steven> Steven has joined #xhtml
13:45:22 <Zakim> +Markus
13:46:09 <Zakim> +McCarron
13:46:24 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:46:24 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:46:25 <Zakim> +Steven
13:47:09 <alessio> alessio has joined #xhtml
13:48:09 <oedipus> regrets+ Tina
13:49:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:49:20 <alessio> zakim, IPcaller is Alessio
13:49:20 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it
13:50:06 <ShaneM> zakim, who is here
13:50:06 <Zakim> ShaneM, you need to end that query with '?'
13:50:07 <Steven> scribe: Steven
13:50:09 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:50:10 <ShaneM> zakim, who is here?
13:50:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Roland, Markus, McCarron, Steven, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita
13:50:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see alessio, Steven, oedipus, Zakim, RRSAgent, markus, Roland, ShaneM, Tina, markbirbeck, trackbot
13:50:55 <Steven> Agenda:
13:51:01 <Steven> Topic: Documents
13:51:19 <Steven> Subtopic: PERs
13:52:37 <oedipus> SP: out of our hands now that transition request submitted; wait until end of review period - approximately 4 weeks
13:52:42 <oedipus> RM: end of may, then?
13:52:52 <oedipus> SP: yes
13:52:58 <Steven> Subtopic: Access
13:53:11 <Roland>
13:53:11 <oedipus>
13:53:18 <oedipus>
13:54:14 <oedipus> SP: sinking feeling comparing DIFF document and current draft cited above -- normative change - not quite happy with going to CR, but fear must go back through LC -- added @media and @order so probably need to recycle
13:54:17 <oedipus> RM: correct
13:54:38 <oedipus> SP: don't think can get away with CR, have to take to Last Call again because of normative changes
13:55:09 <oedipus> proposed RESOLVED: cycle Access Module back through Last Call
13:55:31 <oedipus> RESOLVED: cycle Access Module back through Last Call
13:55:40 <oedipus> SM: timing?
13:55:46 <oedipus> RM: short document - short LC
13:55:51 <oedipus> SP: official minimum is 3 weeks
13:56:11 <oedipus> SP: HCG call this friday at which will mention - can ask if any objections to 3 or 4 week LC period
13:56:26 <oedipus> SM: target 31 may 2009 as END of review period
13:56:43 <oedipus> RESOLVED: XHTML2 WG will target 29 May 2009 as end of review period
13:57:02 <oedipus> SP: need to update action item to request LC
13:57:34 <oedipus> i/SP: out of our hands/ScribeNick+ oedipus
13:58:11 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate oedipus
13:58:31 <oedipus> rrsagent, make logs world
14:00:29 <oedipus>
14:00:44 <Steven> scribe: Steven
14:01:08 <Steven> Subtopic: WAI-ARIA last call comments
14:01:47 <Steven> Steven: As I understand it, the ball is in WAI's court, to provide new wording, and run it past the affected people
14:02:11 <Steven> Gregory: There is some worry about ARIA being delayed
14:04:22 <Steven> ... I am also missing a role="form"
14:06:28 <Steven> Roland: Let's discuss this at length tomorrow
14:06:38 <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - prepare wiki page with background to ARIA's role dependency question
14:06:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - - prepare wiki page with background to ARIA's role dependency question [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-04-29].
14:06:39 <Steven> Topic: Actions
14:07:02 <oedipus> f2f agenda request - D for dialog:
14:07:02 <oedipus> D for dialog issue - "a single letter element to mark dialog (block and inline) should be added to XHTML2": 
14:07:03 <Steven>
14:07:36 <Tina> I'd suggest 'dialogue' instead of 'd'
14:08:00 <oedipus> tina, dialogue is problematic because of dialog - a different concept entirely
14:08:33 <oedipus> tina, HTML5's mistake is to use dialog as the element name - it is wrong, plus D will be used A LOT on pages (short stories, etc.) so a terse element name is best
14:08:59 <Tina> 'd' is problematic 'cause it's a single letter. Being terse isn't a good idea in a language designed for both automatic and manual production.
14:09:01 <Steven> Close ACTION-67
14:09:01 <trackbot> ACTION-67 - talk to Richard to ask if someone from ITS can join an XHTML2 call to discuss this further closed
14:10:57 <Steven> Roland: We can do 71 tomorrow
14:11:07 <Steven> Gregory: I can see if Janina can join us tomorrow
14:11:37 <Steven> Roland: 73?
14:11:55 <Steven> Shane: Not done yet
14:12:01 <Steven> ... actually really hard
14:13:08 <ShaneM>
14:13:31 <Steven> close action-74
14:13:31 <trackbot> ACTION-74 Reply to message 0002 closed
14:13:51 <Steven> Roland: 75?
14:14:20 <Steven> Shane: Just created!
14:14:25 <Steven> [laughter]
14:15:06 <Steven> Topic: VFtF Agenda
14:15:15 <Steven>
14:15:34 <oedipus> tina, the complaint is two-fold: HTML5 is considering an element akin to ARIA's "dialogbox" which would be "dialog" which has a specific programmatic meeting (computing term) whereas all of the english-language reference works explicitly state that "dialogue" is the proper term, but it is a homonym with "dialog" which is a different concept, so to keep ambiguity to a minimum, i have proposed D
14:15:40 <Steven> Roland: What do we need to talk about for new draft of XHTML2?
14:15:49 <oedipus> f2f agenda request - D for dialog:
14:16:44 <Steven> Markus: Expressing subsets in modularization
14:17:48 <Steven> Steven: Isn't that M12N v2 rather than XHTML2?
14:18:12 <Steven> Shane: All our work is public now
14:18:41 <Steven> ... so I don't understand why we need editor's drafts and WDs
14:19:26 <Steven> Steven: A WD is more visible, and an announcement gets made when we produce a WD
14:19:54 <Steven> Roland: :And the 'Previous version' links only link WDs
14:19:58 <Steven> s/;/
14:20:10 <Steven> Markus: XForms integration is the largest undone work
14:20:15 <Steven> Shane: And ITS
14:20:21 <Steven> ... and XML Events 2, which is related
14:20:42 <ShaneM> zakim, who is noisy?
14:20:42 <Zakim> I am sorry, ShaneM; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
14:21:34 <Steven> Shane: Also finishing Relax NG and Schema implementations, which are dependent on those issues above
14:21:52 <Steven> ... though we could mark them as Work in Progress
14:22:03 <Steven> ... and publish tomorrow
14:22:28 <Steven> Shane: I do have a marked up version of the last ED with many editorial changes which still need to be made
14:22:38 <Steven> ... another editorial eye would be good
14:22:57 <Steven> Roland: How about sharing that work out?
14:23:09 <Steven> Shane: Each section had a champion in the past
14:23:23 <Steven> ... but we don't have that at present
14:23:58 <Steven> Roland: It helps that we now include stiff by reference
14:24:07 <Steven> s/stiff/stuff
14:24:19 <Steven> Shane: Suggest a date Roland!
14:24:23 <Steven> Roland: In May
14:24:34 <Steven> ... let's discuss this tomorrow
14:25:31 <Steven> ... I have updated the wiki
14:26:27 <alessio> zakim, mute me
14:26:27 <Zakim> Alessio should now be muted
14:27:15 <alessio>
14:27:46 <Steven>
14:28:05 <Steven> Steven: Can we just prepare now for the ITS discussion?
14:28:43 <Steven> Roland: Let us prep before 14utc, ready for the actual discussion at 14utc
14:28:48 <Steven> Steven: Excellent
14:28:57 <alessio> ok
14:30:32 <Steven> Previous discussion -
14:32:15 <alessio> zakim, unmute me
14:32:15 <Zakim> Alessio should no longer be muted
14:32:28 <Zakim> -Markus
14:32:30 <Zakim> -Steven
14:32:33 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
14:32:37 <Zakim> -Roland
14:32:38 <Zakim> -Alessio
14:32:38 <Zakim> -McCarron
14:32:40 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:32:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Markus, McCarron, Steven, Alessio, Gregory_Rosmaita
14:32:41 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:33:45 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
14:33:56 <alessio> bye!