25965 2014-06-03 17:38:39 +0000 Does a TM (trademark), SM (service mark), (R) (registered trademark) symbol in a company's logo need alt text? 2015-06-19 14:42:19 +0000 1 1 1 Unclassified HTML WG HTML5 spec unspecified Macintosh MacOS X RESOLVED WONTFIX a11y, a11y_text-alt P2 editorial --- 1 glenda.sims faulkner.steve chaals faulkner.steve jens kgroves lwatson mike public-html-admin public-html-wg-issue-tracking public-html-bugzilla oldest_to_newest 107215 0 glenda.sims 2014-06-03 17:38:39 +0000 Can you please document in the HTML 5 spec if a logo (that happens to have a (R) registered trademark symbol) must have alt text that indicates that symbol. (I would also suggest documenting this for TM and SM as well. I see that the W3C logo does not have alt text for the (R) symbol. For example see: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/embedded-content-0.html There is a fierce debate about this within an organization I'm working with...so it sure would be nice to be able to point to the html spec and be able to resolve this question (without any more debate). Merci, Glenda 107474 1 jens 2014-06-08 09:42:46 +0000 (Just wondering whether we get a legal perspective here, which we should.) 107475 2 faulkner.steve 2014-06-08 10:21:08 +0000 (In reply to Jens O. Meiert from comment #1) > (Just wondering whether we get a legal perspective here, which we should.) yes I think that would be useful 107477 3 kgroves 2014-06-08 12:55:54 +0000 IANAL but I've hired some for IP purposes. Whether or not a mark has been registered or not, if business has been done under that mark, it is legally protected. That being said, registering the mark does add an addition layer of protection via its formality. From the USPTO: "Although federal registration of a mark is not mandatory, it has several advantages, including notice to the public of the registrant's claim of ownership of the mark, legal presumption of ownership nationwide, and exclusive right to use the mark on or in connection with the goods/services listed in the registration." http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/ So what does this mean, in the case where a mark has been registered? IOW, is the little symbol meaningful enough to be included in the alt text? I say no. AIUI the Trademark owner is not required to indicate that they've registered that mark. The identification (TM, SM, R, etc.) is placed at the owners discretion. So, my comment would be this: Like any other text alternative, whether or not to include something additional in the alt text depends on what you wish to convey with the image. The age-old question: "What would I say if this image was not here" applies. Some organizations may be particularly sensitive to ensuring they've conveyed their ownership of a mark and may want to explicitly declare that in their alt text as well. To me, that's pretty silly and pointless, but that's a decision for the organization to male. 121232 4 chaals 2015-06-19 14:42:19 +0000 There is no reason for HTML to make a determination one way or another. Like whether the mark is used on an image or not, this is a corporate communications question, and it is debatable whether the mark adds sufficient information to put this in an alt attribute. Companies who think it is critical to communicate this would often be better advised to provide it as part of the optionally-consumed longdesc of their graphic.