W3C

– DRAFT –
Invisible XML Community Group

29 September 2026

Attendees

Present
Alan, Bethan, David, John, Norm, Steven
Regrets
-
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Steven

Meeting minutes

Accept the minutes of the previous meeting

John: We had a whole section on epsilon etc; it says "John didn't know", but I was quoting Manuel from Fawlty Towers, and said "I know nothing".

Review of open actions

2024-03-05-c: SP to prepare pull request to resolve issue #139 (new grammars, new README)

Augmented by 2026-07-07, SP to replace his PR with three separate PRs.

Continues

Status reports

Norm: My implementation runs in C# in context of Saxon 13
… transpiled from Java
… so now invisible XML function works in Saxon

Steven: I have been writing a C implementation over the summer. I added negation to it yesterday. Not yet tested on the suite, but seems fast.

Norm: We should encourage implementors to publish results against the test suite

John: I'm having trouble getting the test suite from codeberg
… it thinks I'm a bot, and so won't do anything for me.

Norm: You can get the test suite from invisiblexml.org as well
… same problem with W3C if you try to get the HTML DTD too often.

Steven: Does codeberg host invisiblexml.org?

Norm: No. There is some hosting in the eu.

<norm> My recollection is that it's statichost.eu, but I'm not sure off the top of my head.

ACTION: Norm to discover where ixml.org is hosted

Progress report on symposium output?

Bethan: All done

Norm: I sent everyone a mail, I will upload to archive.org and announce

ACTION: Norm to upload and announce videos

Next symposium

Steven: Last time we had a deadline of 15th December for submission, so we need to think about it.

Steven: Last Thursday and Friday of February would be 25/26 Feb

All: Looks OK

[We look at last year's call]

ACTION: Norm to upload new call to website

ACTION: Steven to dig out last year's announcement and share

Pull requests

+ A sample grammar for Gregorian dates

See https://codeberg.org/InvisibleXML/ixml/pulls/372

ACTION: Steven submit example grammars

Detecting ambiguity

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2026Sep/0023.html

[Steven reads proposed new wording]

<norm> If we're word-smithing: "Parsing algorithms may differ slightly in the details of how ambiguity is detected, however, if there is more than one interpretation of the parse possible according to the algorithm used, this *must* be reported."

Bethan: I think that all parsers will spot ambiguity in the same way.

Steven: Fine. Then we delete this sentence.

Steven: By the way, long ago we agreed to change the should to a must for adding the state="ambiguous" attribute

Bethan: the attribute should be "ambiguous"

Steven: But you can have state="prefix ambiguous"

David: Machine or human readable?

Steven: Both

John: The attribute space could be expanded

David: Maybe it should be several boolean attributes

John: There are other possible values an implementor may wish to report

Steven: State is almost always single valued

John: Spotting a failure is hard when the result is an XML instance. We should rethink failure modes

Steven: I need XML in cases where it's in a pipeline

Norm: I wouldn't want to prevent that

ACTION: Steven update the ambiguity section

Next meeting

October 13th

[ADJOURN]

Summary of action items

  1. Norm to discover where ixml.org is hosted
  2. Norm to upload and announce videos
  3. Norm to upload new call to website
  4. Steven to dig out last year's announcement and share
  5. Steven submit example grammars
  6. Steven update the ambiguity section
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 248 (Mon Oct 27 20:04:16 2025 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/nual/nuel/

Succeeded: s/MY/My/

Succeeded: s/hoted/hosted/

Succeeded: s/ssame/same/

Succeeded: s/Regrets: Alan//

Succeeded: s/now works/works/

Succeeded: s/nbeen/been/

Maybe present: 2024-03-05-c, All

All speakers: 2024-03-05-c, All, Bethan, David, John, Norm, Steven

Active on IRC: norm, Steven