13:45:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
13:45:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/09/29-ixml-irc
13:45:59 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
13:46:19 <Steven> Meeting: Invisible XML Community Group
13:46:19 <Steven> Date: 29 September 2026
13:46:19 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:46:19 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
13:46:35 <Steven> Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/09/01-ixml-minutes
13:46:43 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:46:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/09/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven
13:48:01 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2026Sep/0032
13:48:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:48:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/09/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven
13:59:16 <norm> norm has joined #ixml
14:00:25 <Steven> Regrets: Alan
14:00:38 <Steven> Present: Norm, Bethan, John, Steven
14:00:45 <john> john has joined #ixml
14:05:10 <Steven> Topic: Accept the minutes of the previous meeting
14:05:54 <Steven> John: We had a whole section on epsilon etc; it says "John didn't know", but I was quoting Manual from Fawlty Towers, and said "I know nothing".
14:06:17 <Steven> s/nual/nuel/
14:06:32 <Steven> Topic: Review of open actions
14:06:32 <Steven> 2024-03-05-c: SP to prepare pull request to resolve issue #139 (new grammars, new README)
14:06:32 <Steven>   Augmented by 2026-07-07, SP to replace his PR with three separate PRs.
14:06:32 <Steven>   Continues
14:06:58 <Steven> Topic: Status reports
14:07:20 <Steven> Norm: MY implementation runs in C# in context of Saxon 13
14:07:26 <Steven> s/MY/My/
14:07:45 <Steven> ... transpiled from Java
14:08:14 <Steven> ... so now invisible XML function now works in Saxon
14:09:39 <Steven> Steven: I have nbeen writing a C implementation over the summer. I added negation to it yesterday. Not yet tested on the suite, but seems fast.
14:10:02 <Steven> Norm: We should encourage implementors to publish results against the test suite
14:10:59 <Steven> John: I'm having trouble getting the test suite from codeberg
14:11:16 <Steven> ... it thinks I'm a bot, and so won't do anything for me.
14:11:29 <Steven> Norm: You can get the test suite from invisiblexml.org as well
14:12:16 <Steven> ... same problem with W3C if you try to get the HTML DTD too often.
14:13:10 <Steven> Steven: Does codeberg host invisiblexml.org?
14:13:22 <Steven> Norm: No. There is some hosting in the eu.
14:14:01 <norm> My recollection is that it's statichost.eu, but I'm not sure off the top of my head.
14:14:14 <Steven> ACTION: Norm to discover where ixml.org is hoted
14:14:23 <Steven> s/hoted/hosted/
14:14:46 <Steven> Present+Alan, David
14:15:33 <Steven> Topic: Progress report on symposium output?
14:15:42 <Steven> Bethan: All done
14:16:10 <Steven> Norm: I sent everyone a mail, I will upload to archive.org and announce
14:16:23 <Steven> ACTION: Norm to upload and announce videos
14:16:53 <Steven> Topic: Next symposium
14:17:38 <Steven> Steven: Last time we had a deadline of 15th December for submission, so we need to think about it.
14:18:56 <Steven> Steven: Last Thursday and Friday of February would be 25/26 Feb
14:19:06 <Steven> All: Looks OK
14:22:09 <Steven> [We look at last year's call]
14:22:53 <Steven> ACTION: Norm to upload new call to website
14:23:27 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to dig out last year's announcement and share
14:23:48 <Steven> Topic: Pull requests
14:23:48 <Steven> + A sample grammar for Gregorian dates
14:23:48 <Steven>   See https://codeberg.org/InvisibleXML/ixml/pulls/372
14:25:14 <Steven> ACTION: Steven submit example grammars
14:25:34 <Steven> Topic: Detecting ambiguity
14:25:34 <Steven>   https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2026Sep/0023.html
14:29:20 <Steven> [Steven reads proposed new wording]
14:30:23 <norm> If we're word-smithing: "Parsing algorithms may differ slightly in the details of how ambiguity is detected, however, if there is more than one interpretation of  the parse possible according to the algorithm used, this *must* be reported."
14:31:00 <Steven> Bethan: I think that all parsers will spot ambiguity in the ssame way.
14:31:10 <norm> s/ssame/same/
14:31:15 <Steven> Steven: Fine. Then we delete this sentence.
14:33:39 <Steven> Steven: By the way, long ago we agreed to change the should to a must for adding the state="ambiguous" attribute
14:35:38 <Steven> Bethan: the attribute should be "ambiguous"
14:36:13 <Steven> Steven: But you can have state="prefix ambiguous"
14:37:00 <Steven> David: Machine or human readable?
14:37:04 <Steven> Steven: Both
14:38:10 <Steven> John: The attribute space could be expanded
14:38:29 <Steven> David: Maybe it should be several boolean attributes
14:39:08 <Steven> John: There are other possible values an implementor may wish to report
14:40:42 <Steven> Steven: State is almost always single valued
14:42:06 <Steven> John: Spotting a failure is hard when the result is an XML instance. We should rethink failure modes
14:43:51 <Steven> Steven: I need XML in cases where it's in a pipeline
14:44:08 <Steven> Norm: I wouldn't want to prevent that
14:44:49 <Steven> ACTION: Steven update the ambiguity section
14:45:32 <Steven> Topic: Next meeting
14:45:56 <Steven> October 13th
14:46:27 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:46:46 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:46:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/09/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:47:07 <Steven> s/Regrets: Alan//
14:47:47 <Steven> s/now works/works/
14:48:02 <Steven> s/nbeen/been/
14:49:47 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/09/29-ixml-minutes.html Steven