14:00:34 RRSAgent has joined #lws 14:00:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-irc 14:00:39 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:00:40 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), laurens 14:00:52 present+ 14:00:53 present+ 14:00:57 meeting: Linked Web Storage - 2026-08-24 14:01:06 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:01:13 TallTed has joined #lws 14:01:14 present+ 14:01:39 present+ 14:02:04 termontwouter has joined #lws 14:02:13 rrsagent, make minutes 14:02:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:02:17 jeremycaine has joined #lws 14:02:24 present+ 14:02:41 present+ 14:02:44 present+ 14:02:48 scribe: elf-pavlik 14:03:01 present+ elf-pavlik 14:03:24 previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/08/17-lws-minutes.html 14:03:36 laurens: admin charter extension process is still onging 14:03:38 next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/08/31-lws-minutes.html 14:03:47 rrsagent, make minutes 14:03:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:03:54 pchampin: we are getting it extended for few months to have time to write a re-charter 14:04:06 chair: laurens 14:04:15 ... even if it expires there is not auto closing, but we better do it in due time 14:04:30 ... we need to continue the work on new charter, and AC will need to vote on that new charter 14:04:33 present+ 14:04:35 chair: laurens 14:04:50 rrsagent, make minutes 14:04:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:05:04 laurens: our current recurring meeting is set to expire on Sep 8th, once admin re-charter goes through you should see and updated invite, sometimes in next few days 14:05:05 i/previous meeting: /agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260824T100000/ 14:05:15 ... we plan to keep the existing slot unless there are objections 14:05:27 q? 14:05:31 ... Sep 7th meeting has been canceled due to holidays in US 14:05:52 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:05:52 agendum 2 -- Vote: Discontinue the SSI DID Key document -> PR#229 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/229 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:06:07 for UK teammater, Aug 31st is a public holiday 14:06:33 laurens: this PR removes the references to that authn suite 14:06:54 q+ to talk about relationship with ssi-cid 14:07:00 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:07:05 ack acoburn 14:07:05 acoburn, you wanted to talk about relationship with ssi-cid 14:07:25 acoburn: one consideration is that there is an overlap with ssi-cid suite 14:07:42 ... currently the cid suite doesn't say anything particular about did methods and did URIs 14:08:07 ... I would like to see, is to adjust ssi-cid to clarify how did method would work using this suite 14:08:28 ... we may change dereference to resolve in few places, minor adjustments may be needed 14:08:30 q? 14:08:41 +1, some adjustment to lws-authn-ssi-cid will be needed 14:09:07 PROPOSAL: Merge the PR discontinuing the SSI DID Key document at https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/229 14:09:07 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/229 -> PR 229 Dicontinue authn-ssi-did-key (by pchampin) 14:09:12 +1 14:09:16 +1 14:09:18 +1 14:09:18 +1 14:09:19 0 - apologies, did not review 14:09:19 +1 14:09:21 +1 14:09:25 +1 14:09:27 +1 14:09:50 RESOLVED: Merge the PR discontinuing the SSI DID Key document at https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/229 14:09:53 q+ to add an action to adjust ssi-cid suite 14:10:03 ack acoburn 14:10:03 acoburn, you wanted to add an action to adjust ssi-cid suite 14:10:24 acoburn: i will add an action, i'm willing to do it myself, regarding discussed adjustments to ssi-cid 14:10:33 ACTION: acoburn to adjust the SSI-CID suite to be more clearly compatible with DID methods 14:10:37 Created -> action #231 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/231 14:10:57 zakim, take up agendum 3 14:10:57 agendum 3 -- Discussion: Remove the specific ETag requirements and defer to RFC 9110 -> PR#228 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/228 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:11:40 laurens: we had some discussions in the past we pivoted from not having anything to introduce ETags as a baseline 14:12:10 acoburn: from last week conversation, i reworked it from removing ETag requirement to having ETag a MUST 14:12:33 ... it is applied across various resource types, data resources, containers, aux resources 14:12:51 ... elf-pavlik mentioned formatting changes, there were touched since the lines were there before 14:12:56 q+ to say no need this time 14:13:03 ack elf-pavlik 14:13:05 elf-pavlik, you wanted to say no need this time 14:13:34 elf-pavlik: mostly for future PRS 14:13:48 acoburn: I agree PRs should be targeted, it's mostly due to history of this PR 14:13:59 s/PRS/PRs/ 14:14:17 zakim, take up agendum 4 14:14:17 agendum 4 -- Discussion: Add subject_uri_schemes_supported to AS metadata -> PR#227 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/227 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:15:03 laurens: we want to be able to communicate in authz server metadata which types / schemes of identifiers are supported 14:15:29 acoburn: we discussed it last week and approved, subject to modification to terminology 14:15:36 s/UK teammater/UK teammates/ 14:15:47 ... we had uri_scheme but in our examles we had DID scheme and method 14:16:06 ... prefix seamed not fitting, i had suggested resolver 14:16:17 s/examles/examples/ 14:16:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:16:29 ... in the discussion Christoph suggested subject_identifier_types 14:16:46 acoburn: I like it better than resolver, i would be inclined to use types 14:16:49 +1 to subject_identifier_types_supported 14:17:03 ... please weigh in the PR unless you have opinion now 14:17:06 +] types 14:17:07 ericP has joined #lws 14:17:13 present+ 14:17:15 s/+]/+1 14:17:30 laurens: I see some emoji reactions in the PR 14:17:49 q+ to ask if old vote is still valid? 14:17:56 scribe+ 14:18:01 ack elf-pavlik 14:18:01 elf-pavlik, you wanted to ask if old vote is still valid? 14:18:12 elf-pavlik: can you just merge it based on older vote? 14:18:18 elf-pavlik: do we have to vote again or is rough-consensus in the PR enough for a merge? 14:18:30 acoburn: since we change terminology, i migh suggest that we have pro forma vote next week 14:18:35 scribe- 14:18:37 laurens: i agree since we change some requirements 14:18:54 zakim, take up agendum 5 14:18:54 agendum 5 -- Discussion: Decide on resolution for StorageResource definition -> issue#220 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/220 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:19:34 laurens: there is discussion on terminology 14:19:51 ... is it relevant beyound access requests and access grants 14:20:02 acoburn: as far as i know it is for acces requests and access grants 14:20:09 q+ to mention LWS resource definition 14:20:25 laurens: eBremer is there anything specific you would like to discuss today? 14:20:34 ack elf-pavlik 14:20:34 elf-pavlik, you wanted to mention LWS resource definition 14:20:43 eBremer: I think is clear and do the draft to discuss it 14:20:48 scribe+ 14:21:25 elf-pavlik: i think we want to align the LWS resource alternative names but we can do it after the PR 14:21:38 laurens: I would be inclined to support existing LWS Resource and don't introduce new terminology 14:21:42 laurens: +1 to doing that after merging 14:21:45 scribe- 14:21:49 zakim, take up agendum 6 14:21:49 agendum 6 -- Discussion: Extracting the move of resources between containers -> issue#148 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/148 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:22:28 laurens: in the proposal for containers, there was a notion for multiple containment, which we didn't keep 14:22:46 ... it had possibility of moving resources between containers in atomic matter 14:23:02 ... my main question would be to extract that aspect 14:23:18 q+ to mention that it's not possible now with even two requests 14:23:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:23:36 laurens: are there any considerations or issues that need to be fixed 14:23:38 +1 to pursue the direction just described 14:23:38 ack elf-pavlik 14:23:38 elf-pavlik, you wanted to mention that it's not possible now with even two requests 14:23:44 scribe+ 14:24:04 elf-pavlik: i don't think we can re-parent this using the same identifier 14:24:21 laurens: we don't specify how identifiers can be controlled by the cilent 14:24:21 laurens: true, because we don't specify how to for identifiers 14:24:29 ... we removed the Slug: header 14:24:29 ... we need to introduce new operation for that 14:24:31 +1 to operations to move resources between containers 14:24:32 +1 for the proposed approach 14:24:35 q+ to mention authz 14:24:36 scribe- 14:24:43 ack elf-pavlik 14:24:43 elf-pavlik, you wanted to mention authz 14:24:44 scribe+ 14:25:31 laurens: we should add consideration on authorization 14:25:32 elf-pavlik: while we are staying away from authn as much as possible, but we could point out that it's like a DELETE and a POST 14:25:48 laurens: I think it should be optional and not a MUST 14:26:04 q+ to ask about moving entire container hierarchies 14:26:08 scribe- 14:26:09 ... there should be some authorization check, possibly equivalent to DELETE and CREATE 14:26:11 ack acoburn 14:26:11 acoburn, you wanted to ask about moving entire container hierarchies 14:26:31 acoburn: what I'm reading in, was about moving data resource 14:26:57 ... what I'm wondering about, would this proposal allow to move an entire hierarchy of containers 14:27:20 +1 on moving entire hierarchies permissions allowing 14:27:22 ... if you were able to move a parent container would you move the whole subtree 14:27:30 laurens: i would take it into consideration 14:27:39 laurens: it may be up to implementers 14:27:48 q+ to request storage capability for the feature 14:27:50 q+ 14:27:57 laurens: method not allowed could be returned 14:28:03 ... it could be indicated 14:28:22 ... otherwise we are going to go into a rabbit hole if we specify it 14:28:31 This will be something for which implementation feedback will be very important 14:28:39 ack elf-pavlik 14:28:39 elf-pavlik, you wanted to request storage capability for the feature 14:28:48 scribe+ 14:28:56 elf-pavlik: it should be discoverable 14:29:16 ... low-hanging fruit to change the URI 14:29:32 ... so we should add this to the StorageDescription 14:29:42 +1 for clear capability discovery 14:29:58 q? 14:30:01 ack pchampin 14:30:24 laurens: this capability is part of proposal i'm going to write 14:30:30 ... we need to indicate what user can update 14:30:32 scribe- 14:30:39 ... possibly under certain condition 14:30:49 pchampin: +1 on making it optional and discoverable 14:30:53 q+ 14:30:59 ... moving containers is tricky since it can cerate cycles 14:31:10 ... we should have informative text warning implementers 14:31:31 ... also talking about authorization, it should be the same on delete and create 14:31:55 ... many authorization policies and rules are based on where it is, moving it can have impact on applied policies 14:32:09 ... some non normative text should could help to point it out 14:32:22 ... maybe even recommending it to warn the users about impact on access 14:32:24 ack eBremer 14:32:41 q? 14:32:46 eBremer: I agree with everything, keep it optional, we should specify how exactly it should work when supported 14:33:02 laurens: I'll try writing a PR and put it on next week agenda 14:33:18 zakim, take up agendum 7 14:33:18 agendum 7 -- Discussion: Test suite -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:34:01 langsamu: i will explain what i've been workin on, and even show something 14:34:20 ... the test suite part and software for data driven test suite 14:34:37 ... it will take some data in the test manifest format that ericP starte working on 14:34:48 ... data and assertions on responses to those requests 14:35:07 ... once it has been loaded and executed, we get EARL report 14:35:17 q+ to ask about sequence of requests 14:35:29 ... report will be based on how responses meet the criteria 14:35:41 laurens: is that work is in a public repo or not yet? 14:35:52 langsamu: not yet but i'm getting there 14:36:04 laurens: can other people chime in or contribute? 14:36:16 ack elf-pavlik 14:36:16 elf-pavlik, you wanted to ask about sequence of requests 14:36:17 scribe+ 14:36:17 langsamu: i don't ask for anything right now but will publish it 14:36:40 elf-pavlik: i made some comments on the closed PR: sometimes we need to test a sequence of tests 14:36:51 ... what's your plan for sequences? 14:37:26 langsamu: these tests are generated from the examples so there's a lot more work. right now 1 req, 1 resp 14:37:29 q+ 14:38:17 elf-pavlik: ericP's tests were single req/resp but the SoLID test suites are sequences 14:38:39 langsamu: we can stack the antecedents in prereqs for a test 14:38:55 elf-pavlik: so we have some duplication 14:39:03 present+ 14:39:26 langsamu: the software will need to meet the prereqs (the same way it runs a test) 14:39:48 elf-pavlik: most servers will only offer a public LWS interface 14:40:18 langsamu: agreed, we don't want unit-test style that invades the server 14:40:38 ... if this is too much duplication, i may propose changes 14:40:41 scribe- 14:40:42 ack ericP 14:40:59 ericP: I find myself frequently facing it 14:41:12 ... having orthogonal tests 14:41:27 ... if somethign in the sequence fails the whole seq is marked as broken 14:41:42 ... and you also don't want to duplicate things in the surface of the test suite 14:41:59 ... the best i've come up with, is to have lanugage for the post and gets and verifies 14:42:12 ... then embedd it into prereqisites 14:42:26 ... other expresivity that is required, you need to capture URLs and media types 14:42:32 ... i have a sketch proposal for that 14:42:45 q+ to ask about idea of test suite task force 14:42:51 ack elf-pavlik 14:42:51 elf-pavlik, you wanted to ask about idea of test suite task force 14:43:02 scribe+ 14:43:24 elf-pavlik: i think jessie suggested a task force for testing 14:43:51 langsamu: eBremer and i had a meeting already. 14:43:55 langsamu: Jesse have setup on meeting and we made some progress 14:44:03 laurens: +1 to a task force 14:44:04 laurens: i support and idea of the task force 14:44:19 scribe- 14:44:24 laurens: if ericP or elf-pavlik are able to lead the effort on the task force? 14:44:34 ... should we have more frequent deep drives 14:44:56 jeswr: I will add recurring meeting and make available to the group 14:45:02 q+ 14:45:08 ack ericP 14:45:08 laurens: once we get implementers involved they may want to join as well 14:45:20 ACTION: jeswr to plan recurring test suite task force meetings 14:45:22 Created -> action #232 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/232 14:45:29 ericP: I'm not at all married to the current approach, we can make changes to it, feel free to propose ideas 14:45:37 q? 14:45:54 langsamu: thank you, it's good to know, i created some issues on that repo already 14:46:06 ... i will probably stop doing issues and PRs and start making chanes 14:46:12 ... it is intuitive and standard 14:46:23 ericP: do you have gh permissions to go nuts? 14:46:32 langsamu: i do have 14:46:44 q? 14:47:39 langsamu: you can see my CLI 14:47:55 ... i'm running a test 14:48:13 ... this is .NET cross platofrm, can be in a container 14:48:32 ... a skeleton is running, each test is a no-op no assertions yet 14:48:46 ... you may want to run suite as test 14:49:12 langsamu: another command puts out Turtle with EARL assertion graph 14:49:34 ... we have a test case for each entry in ericP's manifest 14:49:50 ... I will add more data how it links to the specs 14:50:02 ... I will also need to link test cases to one another 14:50:10 ... leaf nodes represent specific assertions 14:50:15 ericP has joined #lws 14:50:16 ... for example a 201 response 14:50:31 ... each one would be a seprate test 14:50:32 q+ 14:50:34 q? 14:50:37 ack ericP 14:50:39 q+ to make it easy to run by implementers 14:51:02 ericP: EARL is the standard way people in SPARQL and RDF are reporting their results 14:51:10 ... we can catalogue which features are supported by who 14:51:18 ack elf-pavlik 14:51:18 elf-pavlik, you wanted to make it easy to run by implementers 14:51:18 q+ 14:51:22 ... anyone who runs suite learns earl 14:51:34 langsamu: i've chose it exactly for that reason 14:51:40 ... i've done it for SHACL 14:51:54 ... there is an test suite, impl report and submission process 14:52:09 q- 14:52:10 scribe+ 14:52:12 langsamu: implemeters should be able to produce a standard EARL report 14:52:46 elf-pavlik: i have code to run the local tests as CI tests 14:53:02 q? 14:53:04 ... so it's available for both 14:53:09 scribe- 14:53:11 https://dagger.io/ 14:53:20 zakim, take up agendum 8 14:53:20 agendum 8 -- Discussion: Implementation feedback -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:53:40 laurens: we may keep some discussion for the next week 14:53:49 ... mostly checking who is working on implementations 14:54:04 ... anyone is actively implementing, will it be open source, more of a hobby, PoC? 14:54:14 ... are we intending to go beyond simple implementations 14:54:29 ... not a formal pledge, mostly getting a feel 14:54:53 q+ 14:54:56 I'm working on a server implementation as part the test suite work. Will be OS. No progress to report. 14:54:58 ack jeremycaine 14:55:10 jeremycaine: I haven't started on LWS 14:55:29 ... I'm doing AI assisted Solid server in Rust 14:55:44 ... I'm hoping some things can be carried over to LWS implementation 14:56:02 Will be starting soon on initial LWS commercial/proprietary implementation (TwinPod - Commonlisp) 14:56:05 ... probably will get to doing LWS in October, will decide then if I will open source it 14:56:24 q+ to mention access grants 14:56:41 eBremer: I have LWS implemetation, is open source and critical to my work 14:56:46 Inrupt will be starting soon on an LWS implementation (commercial/closed-source) 14:56:50 jeswr: I have a third implementation 14:57:08 jeswr: elf-pavlik had a PR where I listed mine 14:57:43 jeswr has joined #lws 14:57:45 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/171 14:57:47 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/171 -> PR 171 LWS Implementation tracking (by elf-pavlik) 14:57:54 laurens: we may want to start tacking it in implementations reports style repo 14:58:00 +1 to implementation report 14:58:09 scribe+ 14:58:12 ack elf-pavlik 14:58:12 elf-pavlik, you wanted to mention access grants 14:58:33 elf-pavlik: i'm trying to align SoLID SAI with our access requests and grants in LWS 14:58:50 ... it's still SoLID-based but should be re-usable in LWS 14:58:51 q? 14:58:55 scribe- 14:59:16 quit 14:59:28 rrsagent, make minutes 14:59:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html acoburn 15:00:07 present+ jeswr 15:00:41 rrsagent, make minutes 15:00:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/24-lws-minutes.html acoburn