14:56:04 RRSAgent has joined #webmachinelearning 14:56:09 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/08/20-webmachinelearning-irc 14:56:09 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:56:10 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), anssik 14:56:15 Meeting: WebML CG Teleconference – 20 August 2026 14:56:20 Chair: Anssi 14:56:26 Agenda: https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/blob/main/telcons/2026-08-20-cg-agenda.md 14:56:30 Scribe: Anssi 14:56:35 ScribeNick: anssik 14:56:41 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:56:46 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:56:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/20-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik 14:58:42 brwalder has joined #webmachinelearning 14:59:25 Present+ Brandon_Walderman 15:00:55 Mark_Foltz has joined #webmachinelearning 15:00:56 Present+ Juan_Fernandez 15:01:03 Present+ 15:01:23 AlexN has joined #webmachinelearning 15:01:31 Ehsan has joined #webmachinelearning 15:01:37 Present+ Alex_Nahas 15:01:54 Present+ Thomas_Steiner 15:02:50 Present+ Sushanth_Rajasankar 15:03:46 Anssi: as a reminder, we'll use IRC-based queue management in this meeting: 15:03:50 -> https://www.w3.org/guide/meetings/zakim.html#speakerqueue 15:04:07 domfarolino has joined #webmachinelearning 15:04:09 Anssi: to suggest agenda topics, use Agenda+ label, e.g.: 15:04:11 yoav has joined #webmachinelearning 15:04:14 jason has joined #webmachinelearning 15:04:16 -> Agenda+ https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/labels/Agenda+ 15:04:18 Julien has joined #webmachinelearning 15:04:22 Anssi: please welcome our latest new participants 15:04:28 thelounge has joined #webmachinelearning 15:04:29 ... Mikhail Klimenko from NVIDIA 15:04:38 ... Julien Bataille from Rakuten Group 15:04:43 ... Vladimir Edouard from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 15:04:48 ... Yaoming Liu from Huawei 15:04:52 ... Amit Varia from Google 15:04:57 ... Michael Lorenz from Karlsruhe Institute of Technology 15:05:01 ... Sulaiman Alshammari from Gratech 15:05:05 ... Jay Mok from PayPal 15:05:14 ... Nicolas Couture, Carson Jozefzoon, Shoury Sharma, Felix Lind, Kannadasan Saminathan, Junjie Qiu and Yifan Chen as individual contributors 15:05:18 ... welcome all! 15:05:24 Topic: Announcements 15:05:29 Subtopic: TPAC 2026 F2F 15:05:38 Anssi: WebML CG F2F confirmed for Tuesday 27 Oct 2026, in Dublin Ireland 15:05:42 ... second day of the TPAC 2026 week 26-30 Oct 15:05:46 -> TPAC 2026 site https://www.w3.org/news-events/tpac/2026/ 15:05:55 Anssi: a few logistics things to handle, please register for TPAC 2026 and book your travel and accommodation as soon as you can 15:05:56 iris has joined #webmachinelearning 15:06:00 ... register latest by 01 October 2026: 15:06:04 -> TPAC 2026 registration https://www.w3.org/register/tpac2026 15:06:08 Anssi: discount rate provided at the meeting hotel: 15:06:12 -> TPAC 2026 accommodation https://www.w3.org/news-events/tpac/2026/venue/#meeting-venue-and-accommodation 15:06:21 sushraja has joined #webmachinelearning 15:06:36 BenGreenstein has joined #webmachinelearning 15:06:37 Anssi: our F2F Agenda is a joint GH issue with the WebML WG to allow the community chime in more easily with suggestions 15:06:42 ... we can continue to label Agenda+ interesting issues and consider these candidates for discussion at the F2F 15:06:49 -> F2F agenda https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/issues/39 15:06:50 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/meetings/issues/39 -> Issue 39 WebML WG/CG F2F Agenda - TPAC 2026 (Dublin, Ireland) (by anssiko) 15:07:11 Anssi: the Working Group meets on Monday, 26 October 2026, right before the Community Group meeting 15:07:20 ... I encourage all participants to attend both days to get the full picture of the WebML community 15:07:25 Anssi: questions, comments? 15:07:43 gurusingh has joined #webmachinelearning 15:07:48 Subtopic: E-commerce for Humans and AI Agents workshop 15:08:16 Anssi: this W3C workshop aims to share experience of creating content with AI Agents with ecommerce as a particular focus 15:08:26 ... the event takes place Sep 8-9, 2026 in Zurich, Switzerland, Google hosts 15:08:30 ... workshop agenda has been published: 15:08:34 -> https://www.w3.org/2026/ecommerce-agents/agenda.html 15:08:52 Anssi: the event is now fully booked, but if you are interested in attending, please reach out to me and I can help you get on the waitlist 15:08:57 ... more information about the workshop is available on the W3C's site: 15:09:00 -> https://www.w3.org/2026/ecommerce-agents/ 15:09:16 Subtopic: WebMCP polyfill 15:09:20 gb, this is webmachinelearning/webmcp 15:09:20 anssik, OK. 15:09:35 Anssi: issue #252 15:09:35 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues/252 -> Issue 252 Hosting official polyfill for WebMCP (by beaufortfrancois) 15:09:40 Anssi: a proposal to host official polyfill for WebMCP in the webmachinelearning GH org 15:09:47 Anssi: there's a history for hosting polyfills, this is a good fit 15:10:02 ... prior we hosted https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webnn-polyfill that served as a useful library while native implementations were still in development, we deprecated it when the native implementations matured 15:10:08 ... share your feedback via the issue, we will make a decision in our next meeting 15:11:21 RESOLUTION: The group plans to host an official polyfill for WebMCP in the webmachinelearning GitHub organization. Adoption earliest by our next meeting, feedback via issue #252. 15:11:37 Topic: Translator and Language Detector APIs 15:11:42 gb, this is webmachinelearning/translation-api 15:11:42 anssik, OK. 15:11:46 Subtopic: Security considerations for HTML translation 15:11:59 Anssi: issue #78 15:11:59 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/78 -> Issue 78 Document security considerations for HTML translation (by reillyeon) [Agenda+] 15:12:27 Anssi: Mozilla reviewed the API and suggested the way how HTML fragments are translated needs careful consideration to avoid security issues 15:12:35 ... per Reilly's comment translation models expect text, not HTML as input 15:12:40 ... possible vector for an injection attack 15:13:17 jason has joined #webmachinelearning 15:13:26 Reilly: this issue is outcome of time spent trying to respond to issue #60 around whether we could support translating HTML, still unsure whether we can spec this as an API or leave this to developers 15:13:27 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/60 -> Issue 60 Input formats for translation and language detection (by tomayac) 15:13:52 ... took a look at Firefox whole page translation implementation, found it complicated 15:14:27 ... propose we respond to Mozilla's concerns and document that developers may implement translation along the lines of code snippet provided in the issue 15:14:39 AlexN has joined #webmachinelearning 15:14:41 s/propose/proposing 15:15:58 q? 15:16:01 q+ 15:16:07 ack anssik 15:16:10 q+ 15:16:14 ack Ehsan 15:16:33 Ehsan: I responded to the issue and support Reilly's proposed approach 15:16:52 ... issue #60 has low-hanging fruit for consensus 15:16:52 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/60 -> Issue 60 Input formats for translation and language detection (by tomayac) 15:17:08 ... I tried to categorize related issues and proposed possible next steps 15:17:56 Anssi: are you volunteering to update the security considerations? 15:18:02 Ehsan: I'm working on that already 15:18:32 RESOLUTION: The group resolves to document the potential injection attack vector in the security considerations section of the Translator and Language Detector APIs specification. (issue #78) 15:18:33 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/translation-api/issues/78 -> Issue 78 Document security considerations for HTML translation (by reillyeon) [Agenda+] 15:18:46 Topic: Prompt API 15:18:50 gb, this is webmachinelearning/prompt-api 15:18:50 anssik, OK. 15:18:57 Subtopic: Tool calling, extended thinking, and multimodality 15:19:03 Anssi: issue #209 15:19:04 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/prompt-api/issues/209 -> Issue 209 Extend the Message format to support tool calling, extended thinking, and multimodality (by nico-martin) [Agenda+] 15:19:35 q+ 15:20:01 ... for this issue, I'd want us to understand what gaps there are in the current multimodal and tool call support 15:20:05 ... the issue was opened by Nico from Hugging Face, who is implementing a similar API shape for Transformers.js 15:20:07 ack reillyg 15:20:54 Reilly: we haven't looked at tool calling lately too much, my recollection is we had something reasonable in this open-loop proposal 15:21:24 ... trying to understand the gap with Nico's API implemented in Transformers.js 15:21:44 domfarolino has joined #webmachinelearning 15:21:52 Sarah: should we defer this for our next meeting? 15:22:09 Reilly: when implementers are ready to think about this we should revisit this 15:22:10 q? 15:22:23 q+ 15:22:56 Sarah: we will come to this by the next meeting 15:23:16 -> https://github.com/explainers-by-googlers/vector-store-api/ 15:23:54 Topic: WebMCP 15:23:59 gb, this is webmachinelearning/webmcp 15:23:59 anssik, OK. 15:24:04 Anssi: I made a few changes to today's WebMCP agenda 15:24:15 ... removed issues #186 and #227 that are fixed and closed, added issue #227 15:24:15 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues/227 -> Issue 227 Tool discovery should not be limited to a single traversable navigable (by domfarolino) [Agenda+] 15:24:15 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues/186 -> Issue 186 WebMCP "real-user measurement" (by yoavweiss) [Agenda+] 15:24:25 ack reillyg 15:24:31 ... great work by getting these issues addressed ahead the meeting 15:24:45 Subtopic: Wide review 15:25:07 ... in our last meeting we initiated wide review of WebMCP with the TAG, Privacy and Security groups 15:25:17 ... first, let's do a debrief on TAG, Privacy and Security reviews to bring the group up to date 15:25:30 ... TAG has not yet delivered its review response 15:25:55 ... TAG had a discussion on 2026-08-05 with WebML CG participants who were available at that time 15:26:00 -> 2026-08-05 TAG meeting https://github.com/w3ctag/meetings/blob/gh-pages/2026/telcons/08-03-minutes.md#special-focus-design-reviews1238-incubation-webmcp-github---marcoscaceres-matatk-toreini-christianliebel--guests 15:26:09 Anssi: Dominic shared helpful notes in the TAG review issue: 15:26:13 -> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1238#issuecomment-5207638057 15:26:14 https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/1238 -> Issue 1238 Incubation: WebMCP (by marcoscaceres) [Progress: in progress] [Review type: CG early review] [Venue: WebML CG] [Missing: Multi-stakeholder support] [Topic: Machine Learning] [Focus: API design (pending)] [Focus: Web architecture 15:26:14 … (pending)] [Focus: Security (pending)] [Focus: Privacy (pending)] [Focus: Accessibility (pending)] [Focus: Internationalization (pending)] 15:26:29 Anssi: per the meeting discussion, the TAG is still building understanding of WebMCP and its surrounding ecosystem 15:26:51 ... I want to thank those who participated for diligently answering the questions and explaining the problem space WebMCP is addressing 15:27:09 ... the realization that "more HTML semantics" is a different, complementary, problem space, helps clarify the scope of WebMCP 15:29:00 Dominic: good summary, one of the biggest hang ups is around security, folks not familiar with WebMCP can confuse the proposal with some other features, same-origin policy, mixing data across tabs, we're working hard with Threat Modeling folks at W3C to clarify the threat models for WebMCP and MCP are different 15:29:07 Victor has joined #webmachinelearning 15:29:50 ... we're making progress in building shared understanding on these issues 15:30:40 Anssi: did TAG share any estimate when the response would be delivered? 15:30:54 the discussions in TAG still continues, Marcos already mentioned that today in the issue thread 15:31:10 Dominic: no definite dates shared 15:31:54 Ehsan: TAG discussions are still ongoing, the July discussion was not official TAG position 15:33:23 Dominic: if the TAG wants to have more discussion, we're happy to meet them in future breakouts 15:33:52 ... Marcos not being present in the July breakout meant it was of reduced utility 15:34:19 Ehsan: Marcos initiated that discussion but was not in that meeting himself unfortunately 15:34:36 q? 15:35:00 Anssi: privacy review request has been assigned to privacy reviewers and the spec was introduced on the privacy group's July meeting, no official response yet 15:35:05 -> https://github.com/w3cping/privacy-request/issues/213 15:35:06 https://github.com/w3cping/privacy-request/issues/213 -> Issue 213 WebMCP 2026-06-25 > 2026-08-01 (by domfarolino) [WD] [pending] [REVIEW REQUESTED] 15:35:09 -> https://github.com/w3c-cg/threat-modeling/blob/agentic-ai-web-browsers-rewrite/meetings/2026-07-14_minutes.md 15:35:26 q? 15:35:45 Anssi: security groups have had two sessions in July to discuss WebMCP, with some of our group participants attending 15:35:49 -> https://github.com/w3c/security-request/issues/135 15:35:50 https://github.com/w3c/security-request/issues/135 -> Issue 135 WebMCP 2026-06-25 > 2026-08-01 (by domfarolino) [REVIEW REQUESTED] [WD] 15:35:54 -> 2026-07-07 Security IG https://github.com/w3c/securityig/blob/main/meetings/2026/2026-07-07_agenda.md 15:36:02 -> 2026-07-14 Threat Modeling CG https://github.com/w3c-cg/threat-modeling/blob/agentic-ai-web-browsers-rewrite/meetings/2026-07-14_minutes.md 15:36:14 Anssi: Simone is working on the WebMCP threat modeling exercise 15:36:37 Johann: Simone recently shared a draft for threat modeling, there's progress on this 15:36:38 q? 15:37:46 Anssi: in the second phase of WebMCP wide review, we reach out to the web internationalization (i18n) and web accessibility (a11y) experts 15:38:24 ... I'd propose we initiate wide reviews with the i18n and a11y groups in the coming few weeks 15:38:36 ... I will coordinate this with the chairs of those groups 15:38:43 ... we've already engaged with these groups via our GH issues: 15:38:47 -> i18n-tracker https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Ai18n-tracker 15:38:53 -> a11y-tracker https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Aa11y-tracker 15:39:05 Anssi: we will refer to these issues in our review requests 15:39:28 Anssi: in addition, both the groups provide checklists to catch the most common i18n and a11y issues: 15:39:33 -> a11y checklist https://w3c.github.io/fast/checklist.html 15:39:37 -> i18n checklist https://www.w3.org/International/i18n-drafts/techniques/shortchecklist 15:40:03 Anssi: we're ought to validate WebMCP against these checklists to ensure we've covered the most important issues in our review process 15:40:14 ... in my experience, many questions are geared toward HTML, and may not apply to APIs such as WebMCP 15:40:30 ... in these cases we simply provide a rationale for why they don't apply, if not straightforward 15:41:11 ... questions, comments, concerns? 15:42:55 Sarah: I know a few people who could help with a11y review 15:44:06 Kannadasan: I've worked in i18n space and can help a bit 15:44:32 Anssi: I will put interested folks willing to contribute in contact with i18n and a11y groups 15:45:06 RESOLUTION: Initiate wide review of WebMCP with the i18n and a11y groups along with collateral materials. 15:45:58 Subtopic: Developer tooling 15:46:04 Anssi: issue #207 15:46:04 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues/207 -> Issue 207 Support developer tooling (by jackfranklin) [Agenda+] 15:46:35 ... I'd like to understand key use cases and requirements for developer tooling wrt WebMCP 15:46:40 ... and whether those use cases warrant providing a mechanism to distinguish between developer tools and user-facing tools as proposed 15:46:47 ... two use cases are explored in the issue are: 15:46:53 ... debugging web app's flickering UI 15:46:57 ... debugging web app's state 15:47:12 Anssi: are we converging on the idea of a "devtoolstooldiscovery" event to help developers discover tools that are available for debugging purposes? 15:48:49 Sarah: for developer tooling, we're finding for large-scale apps it is good to have some scoping for tools, we could defer the cascade for tools, need some scoping to plugin Puppeteer and Playwright-style observability tools 15:50:22 Dominic: I think we'd want to standardize developer prefix in annotations, to be able to distinguish developer tools from non-developer tools 15:51:50 s/prefix/member 15:52:00 +1 15:52:14 RESOLUTION: Add a debugging member to Annotation dictionary. (issue #207) 15:52:16 Victor has joined #webmachinelearning 15:53:00 Subtopic: Real-user measurement 15:53:05 Anssi: issue #186 15:53:05 https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues/186 -> Issue 186 WebMCP "real-user measurement" (by yoavweiss) [Agenda+] 15:53:13 ... this issue is to discuss how RUM techniques apply to WebMCP 15:53:37 ... Yoav wants to find a solution that answers the questions: 15:53:41 ... "Is my WebMCP implementation working well at scale?" 15:53:45 ... "Did the user achieve what they were trying to do?" 15:53:51 Anssi: are these the core questions? 15:54:07 Yoav: we broke these down to sub questions in a follow up discussion 15:54:21 ... some things we need to do are instrumentable 15:54:30 ... with toolactivated event 15:54:49 ... some other things developers need, e.g. what agents are users using and with what agents we should test with? 15:55:09 ... agents may feel confused, was that a good experience for the user regardless? 15:55:32 ... I don't know if we can provide these signals to the developer in the granularity required 15:55:37 ... e.g. some timestamps could be useful 15:55:38 q? 15:55:44 q+ 15:56:01 BenGreenstein has joined #webmachinelearning 15:56:17 ack domfarolino 15:56:54 Dominic: we talk about this internally, my hunch is whether the agent succeeds in representing its user's task, this is something sites want to know even outside WebMCP 15:57:18 ... I imagine this taking place outside WebMCP, site could register reporting URL 15:57:33 ... WebMCP would be represented in that 15:57:54 ... would like to start with something broader and let WebMCP feed into that 15:58:03 ... Yoav, how do you think about that? 15:58:38 Yoav: we'd perhaps need some UA String -style mechanism to understand the user's agent 15:59:09 ... disconnected from session, developers would need to setup collection infrastructure 16:00:26 ... we can have various agent interaction metrics and WebMCP support will improve them, tool calls that are instrumentable 16:01:36 Yoav: let's continue discussion in the issue, reporting API outside WebMCP is interesting, let's explore straw proposals in this space 16:01:37 q? 16:02:27 Mark_Foltz has left #webmachinelearning 16:18:38 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:18:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/20-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik 16:20:10 Present+ Yoav_Weiss 16:20:33 Present+ Ehsan_Toreini 16:20:50 Present+ Guru_Singh 16:21:04 Present+ Julien_Bataille 16:22:01 Present+ Kannadasan_Saminathan 16:22:21 Present+ Reilly_Grant 16:22:31 Present+ Sarah_Drasner 16:22:39 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:22:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/20-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik 16:23:21 Present+ Dominic_Farolino 16:23:53 Present+ Johann_Hofmann 16:24:12 Present+ Guy_Bary 16:24:19 Present+ Iris_Johnson 16:24:28 Present+ Jason_McGhee 16:24:54 Present+ Julia_Pagnucco 16:25:36 Present+ Saron_Yitbarek 16:25:48 Present+ Victor_Huang 16:26:01 RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:26:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/20-webmachinelearning-minutes.html anssik