11:37:04 RRSAgent has joined #rqtf 11:37:09 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/08/19-rqtf-irc 11:37:09 RRSAgent, make logs Public 11:37:10 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jasonjgw 11:37:28 meeting: RQTF meeting 11:37:34 chair: jasonjgw 11:37:40 present+ 11:37:43 scribe+ 11:37:47 agenda+ Accessibility of Machine Learning and Generative AI draft. 11:37:47 agenda+ Game accessibility. 11:37:47 agenda+ Miscellaneous topics. 12:55:03 jasonjgw has joined #rqtf 13:02:09 janina has joined #rqtf 13:02:14 present+ 13:02:17 scribe+ 13:02:22 JPaton has joined #rqtf 13:02:31 present+ John_Paton 13:03:11 stacey has joined #rqtf 13:03:34 present+ 13:03:38 scribe+ 13:05:09 zakim, next item 13:05:11 agendum 1 -- Accessibility of Machine Learning and Generative AI draft. -- taken up [from jasonjgw] 13:05:33 Jason: anythign we can usefully discuss and coordinate on this? 13:06:54 Janina: No, I've started to build new file based on outline TOC that was shared and commented on. As discussed last week, moving to W3C style HTML markup in git. Need to trim down what was in there. But the AI helped clarify what we were thinking. GOing to try to capture that. And then copy over what we already have in existing doc and decide if 13:06:54 ready to merge and make the new doc the main doc. Won't wait for all three to be done to bring it back, but need to get first level done to review. 13:07:08 Jason: when would you like it to come back to a meeting? 13:07:14 Janina: let's try for next week 13:07:28 Jason: Doesn't mean you need to have anything... 13:08:05 Jason: anything else on this item? 13:08:09 zakim, next item 13:08:09 agendum 2 -- Game accessibility. -- taken up [from jasonjgw] 13:08:51 Jason: John circulated an update on the mailing list. Thank you for that. Updated declares a draft of gap analysis complete and text of a cover note to APA working group 13:09:16 John: That's a good summary. Did anyone have a chance to look at it? Evaluation and proposal section at the end were main changes. 13:10:01 Jason: On basis of that, already suggested analysis was in right direction. Haven't given it another review yet. Provisionally saying developing in the right direction. Any reactions to John's status report? 13:12:51 Janina: Please you've gotten it to this point and ahead of the calendar. Seriously pleased. I haven't read it, but perked up and now is the time to take a serious look at it. Will respond on list if anything significant. But have a question and come back to it in a minute. Want to talk timeline. Not a good time to do a CFC right before labor day 13:12:51 weekend (sept 7). But next Wed is out last Wed in August. If the doc is well put together, then that will exactly fit that timeline, a call for consensus with APA right after labor day. Should have a decision - usually about a week. Is there in cover documentation or cover letter a statement - short work statement...here's the gaps and here's what 13:12:51 we propose? Anything in there like that already? 13:13:43 John: one sentence, but recommending the intentional friction aspect...I don't know if it's as succinct, there's a purpose at the beginning. 13:14:14 Janina: i would like it to flag, useful ways to look at what type of breakage we would accept and under what circumstatnces and building the GAUR and develop concepts futher. 13:14:22 John: Happy to encapsulate that and make changes 13:14:43 Jason: Second what Janina is saying. Draft abstract would be useful 13:15:04 John: proposal at the end, methodology and intentional and unintentional friction...Breaking it down like that. 13:16:20 Janina: Test might be accessible guidelines if they want to pick it up, but developing that this exists and why important and how we used it in the GAUR and where we're landing...Incorporate in WCAG 3...game plan at top of my head. 13:17:02 Jason: Sounds reasonable to me. Having characterized appropriate ways of analyzing the problems is as much as we can achieve...elaborate in a way useful to people who are developing guidelines and practionioners in field encountering these... 13:17:17 Janina: if can get into WCAG 3, then a path to regulators to pick up on 13:17:29 Jason: John - bring this back next week? 13:17:33 John: yes 13:17:54 Jason: slight elaboration on scope of work and then were' fine. Comments may come in on analysis and where it stands 13:18:06 zakim, next item 13:18:06 agendum 3 -- Miscellaneous topics. -- taken up [from jasonjgw] 13:18:30 Jason: other things going on we should know about? 13:19:01 Janina: nothing specific from me. Didn't have the XR...no planning meeting for APA. 13:19:47 Jason: Let's introduce taht when it's appropriate. bring back here when we have clarity 13:20:06 Janina: i'll give a heads up coming early sept. and have a proposal. 13:20:28 jason: on XR issue, raise that at appropriate time when we get clarification..discuss if needs discussing 13:20:33 janina: yes 13:22:33 Jason: Articles and presentations from open AI regarding recent security incident that had media publicity. Has to do with cooperation and on cooperation between agents. They can cooperate to breach securtiy to perform tasks or cheat (as commentators put it) and communicate among themseelves using mechanims you didn't expect. Move into a world 13:22:33 where complex interactions between different users LLM agents and when that invovles humans as well can complicate the issue of oversight and potentially open opportunities for a11y problesm to be solved but cooprartion among multiple agents and haven't thought about those implicataions 13:22:53 janina: probably add that into the paper. Who decides..."my agent" - if my agent I should ahve some say in that 13:23:18 jason: interacting with other agents, what sort of control do you have with that, and benefits if solvin your or my a11y issue along the way 13:23:32 Janina: who indemnifying....fiduciary implications. unavoidable 13:23:51 jason: same person could invoke multiple agents working on same task or parts of task and multiple agents work on it 13:23:59 Janina: and compete for my approval 13:24:13 Jason: playing out in research right now and head our way in the next couple of years 13:24:32 ...slight gloss on agent issue with multipl cooporating agents... 13:24:40 Janina: authorized and unauthorized 13:24:48 Jason: yes, that's what people getting concerned about 13:24:59 Janina: browser decided is not sufficient in my view 13:25:24 Jason: agent to perform a long process could access web applications and performing actions you don't know about 13:26:16 ...indirectly have a11y implications. Explain users role may need to be to oversee these types of systems and user's agent may seek to make an interaction more accessible could interact with other agents. so my agent could interact with the airline's agent in the future 13:26:31 Janina: think about what we might need to say about that 13:26:43 Jason: probably not a lot, but acknowledge that it will happen 13:27:01 Janina: would hate if yet another set of archane and complicated terms of service...those things that everyone doesn't read 13:27:06 Jason: possible as well 13:27:53 Janina: i think legal situation with meta will have profound impact on industry and won't be as freewheeling as some of those judgements come down. 13:28:10 ...social web might be called the anti-social 13:28:26 Jason: if my agent and works with airline agent and books me on wrong flight am i responsible? 13:28:39 janina: tried to book with innosearch it booked me with the wrong class 13:29:16 ...it did not do what it said. and innosearch (bug report) i got sent to their help pages 13:31:16 Jason: issue for us, if anyone has a cognitive disability that makes dealing with these issues more difficult...will be at a disadvantage 13:31:29 Janina: disability tax at all levels 13:31:39 Jason: error handling that could be more difficult 13:33:51 Jason: multiple agent world...what happens when it doesn't work as intended. Might have to discuss this 13:34:06 janina: when it breaks. Because it will 13:36:25 zakim, end meeting 13:36:25 As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, janina, John_Paton, stacey 13:36:27 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 13:36:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/19-rqtf-minutes.html Zakim 13:36:35 I am happy to have been of service, jasonjgw; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 13:36:35 Zakim has left #rqtf 13:57:30 janina has left #rqtf