15:00:28 RRSAgent has joined #pronunciation 15:00:33 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/08/10-pronunciation-irc 15:00:33 agenda+ Other Business 15:00:33 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:00:34 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), PaulG 15:00:38 present+ 15:00:44 agenda? 15:11:51 zakim, next item 15:11:51 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review, Membership & Announcements -- taken up [from PaulG] 15:12:15 with my new work responsibilities, I can't spend much time on this TF for the time being 15:13:08 Minutes from last time: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-pronunciation-minutes.html 15:14:26 matatk: there may be renewed interest due to some work in authoring tools 15:16:07 meeting: Pronunciation TF 15:18:29 [DRAFT] ARIA Counter Proposal: https://github.com/w3c/pronunciation/wiki/%5BDRAFT%5D-ARIA-Counter-Proposal 15:18:32 scribe+ 15:19:00 PaulG: The ARIA proposal solves a couple of things, but not others, such as break/pause. We could pull back to just going with the ARIA approach as standalone. 15:19:30 PaulG: I'd broken out a way to say for example whether something should be read as ordinal, cardinal, or characters (e.g. ten) 15:20:09 PaulG: The ARIA breaking part required there to be a string that caused the break. You would have to include something in there to cause breaks (could use a non-breaking space, though). 15:20:39 PaulG: ...So a little hacky but could be done. Emphasis and Whisper were more forced/kludgy. 15:20:57 PaulG: Say-as, substitution, interpret, were pretty strong 15:28:08 matatk: We talked last time about the importance of determinism. 15:28:58 PaulG: Yes, ETS research backing up learners being more successful when they heard consistent pronunciations. But they put pause/break as an equal requirement to that, and weren't able to accept half measures. 15:29:27 PaulG: I think if we went with the ARIA proposal we'd get stuck on pause/break again and would need to make peace with that. Pause/break would still be heuristic until another solution is found 15:29:48 matatk: Concern about whether we would preclude fixing that if we adopted the AIRA approach for other parts (needs research). 15:36:39 matatk: (explains how Adapt symbols are intended to work - ruby, Unicode, font mapping) 15:36:53 matatk: How could we use this for pronunciation? 15:37:03 PaulG and matatk: What about lang=ipa (or something like) 15:37:34 *group looks into this* 15:38:24 PaulG: It's an alphabet, not a language, but maps to all llanguages of which we know. 15:38:40 matatk: Does it do break/pause? 15:39:59 PaulG: There's are various types of prosodic boundary indicators. 15:40:09 PaulG: May not be enough for some of the cases we need. 15:43:17 matatk: This has the potential to be visible in more situations for more users, rather than the AIRA approach which is invisible to non-AT users. 15:43:32 PaulG: Could render conditionally based on different interactions. 15:44:09 PaulG: Would then need to revive the proposed type attr on e.g. type=ipa, lang=en-gb 15:44:46 matatk: Could we also do (as per some education cases) 'English as spoken in the 1920s?' 15:45:35 PaulG: We discussed an approach for 'leisure' in en-gb and en-us; what about 'color' and 'colour' - we have a matrix of markup examples. Somewhere there'd need to be a map. Can't be in the UA as it has to be author-controlled. Needs thought. 15:46:14 zakim, next item 15:46:14 agendum 2 -- Other Business -- taken up [from PaulG] 16:07:26 zakim, end meeting 16:07:26 As of this point the attendees have been PaulG 16:07:27 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:07:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/10-pronunciation-minutes.html Zakim 16:07:36 I am happy to have been of service, PaulG; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:07:36 zakim, bye 16:07:36 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been PaulG 16:07:36 Zakim has left #pronunciation