15:49:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
15:49:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-irc
15:49:58 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
15:49:58 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:49:59 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
15:50:08 <AndyS> meeting: RDF and SPARQL Working Group
15:50:26 <AndyS> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:50:26 <AndyS> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/08/13-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:50:34 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
15:50:44 <AndyS> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/11e4d020-9c58-4fff-83c5-37c9e2502295/20260806T120000/#agenda
15:50:44 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:50:44 <agendabot> agenda+ Info on SPARQL-RL -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html#65aa
15:50:44 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open PRs, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
15:50:44 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
15:50:53 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:50:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
15:51:05 <AndyS> present+
15:54:28 <j22> present+
15:54:49 <j22> scribe:j22
15:55:25 <j22> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:55:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html j22
15:56:52 <ktk> regrets+ ora, gtw
15:57:09 <ktk> regrets+ olaf
15:57:25 <ktk> regrets+ niklasl
15:57:34 <ktk> present+
15:59:22 <TallTed> present+
15:59:43 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
16:00:27 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
16:00:47 <pchampin> present+
16:01:11 <tl> present+
16:01:19 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:01:26 <Souri> present+
16:02:15 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:02:15 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Info on SPARQL-RL -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html#65aa -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:02:18 <ktk> chair: ktk
16:02:26 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:02:32 <olaf> present+
16:03:47 <j22> AndyS: In the Shapes working group, they want to to reorgnize one of the working group documents to name one of their documents SPARQL-RL. This is a rule language that is SPARQL inspired.
16:03:50 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
16:03:54 <lisp> lisp has joined #rdf-star
16:04:03 <niklasl> present+
16:04:19 <lisp> present+
16:04:31 <Tpt> present+
16:04:44 <j22> Naming discussion is tricky. Sparql editors contacted. Other option had been RDF-rules
16:04:49 <ktk> q?
16:05:02 <pfps> present+
16:05:09 <TallTed> s/Naming discussion is tricky/AndyS: Naming discussion is tricky/
16:05:14 <Tpt> present+
16:05:18 <Dominik_T> Dominik_T has joined #rdf-star
16:05:23 <Dominik_T> present+
16:05:55 <pfps> q+
16:05:56 <j22> ktk: asks if something can be done if desired. pchampin: replies a objection?? can be made.
16:06:05 <ktk> ack pfps
16:06:35 <j22> pfps: is very uncomfortable with naming something SPARQL that is not done by the SPARQL-WG.
16:06:49 <Dominik_T> rrsagent, generate the minutes
16:06:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html Dominik_T
16:07:13 <Tpt> q+
16:07:18 <j22> AndyS: mentions that our charter regarding is quite limited, and it is a different WG
16:07:20 <ktk> ack Tpt
16:08:04 <j22> Tpt: has mixed feelings: good document but diverges from SPARQL and the import system as well.
16:08:27 <pfps> I was unaware of SPARQL Rules as an official W3C name.
16:09:26 <pfps> q+
16:09:33 <j22> AndyS: mentions that import in SHACL/SPARQL-RULES is a risky regards importing stuff from the web. (also owl imports)
16:09:42 <ktk> ack pfps
16:10:11 <Tpt> draft: https://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl12-rules/
16:11:08 <j22> AndyS: mentions that our charter regarding is quite limited, and it is a different WG
16:12:09 <j22> AndyS: explains some of the tradeoffs in rules languages also other options SWIG, N3 ...
16:12:16 <pfps> q+
16:12:16 <ktk> q?
16:12:40 <j22> pfps: what is the status of the SHACL/SPARQL-RULES
16:13:00 <ktk> q?
16:13:03 <ktk> ack pfps
16:14:55 <j22> AndyS: explains some of the sims with SPARQL and some of the differences
16:16:31 <j22> TallTed: explains some history with shacl-af that this in the second shapes wg this shacl-af was a requirements document.
16:16:50 <pfps> q+
16:16:53 <j22> TallTed: explains that SPARQL-RULES as a requirement for the current SHACL WG.
16:17:45 <j22> q+
16:17:49 <AndyS> q+
16:17:59 <ktk> ack pfps
16:18:03 <j22> TallTed: welcomes a better name. Please read all options.
16:18:16 <j22> pfps: thinks we could veto this
16:18:48 <Dominik_T> rrsagent, generate the minutes
16:18:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html Dominik_T
16:18:56 <j22> TallTed: formal objection road is open. He thinks it would pass
16:18:57 <pfps> q+
16:18:57 <lisp> q+
16:19:10 <ktk> ack j22
16:19:13 <ktk> ack j
16:19:15 <pfps> q-
16:19:33 <j22> Sorry bad mike
16:19:51 <ktk> ack AndyS
16:20:13 <j22> AndyS: SRL is what is used in discussions
16:20:47 <ktk> ack lisp
16:21:37 <j22> lisp: would this conflict with current or future work by this WG?
16:21:57 <ktk> q?
16:22:37 <pfps> I see a definite difference between SPARQL rules on one hand and SPARQL-Full and SPARQL-RL on the other hand.  The former, particularly as used in 2017, refers to a particular use of SPARQL in rules.  The latter appear to be variants of SPARQL.
16:22:41 <pfps> q+
16:22:42 <j22> AndyS: everything in SHACL-RULES can be implemented in SPARQL
16:22:58 <TallTed> More input on .srl --
16:22:58 <TallTed> https://www.abbreviations.com/SRL
16:22:58 <TallTed> https://www.acronymfinder.com/SRL.html
16:22:58 <TallTed> https://filext.com/file-extension/SRL
16:24:10 <j22> AndyS: searched for name using SPARQL-RL -> one hit that was a document separtly mentioning SPARQL and RL.
16:24:17 <TallTed> have to search for `"sparql rl"` with quotes, rather than `sparql rl` without quotes
16:24:37 <pfps> q+
16:25:26 <ktk> ack pfps
16:26:17 <j22> still bad mike,question already answered
16:26:55 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:26:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review of open PRs, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:26:56 <j22> ktk: currently nothing can be done if desired by the WG. This is for W3C members
16:27:30 <j22> ktk: there was a discusion between chairs regarding triaging issues
16:27:52 <j22> ktk: chairs will propose what they think should be done
16:28:24 <j22> Nothing to be said about RDF/XML by me
16:28:47 <ktk> q?
16:29:04 <j22> Nothing to be said about RDF/XML by j22
16:29:23 <TallTed> s/Nothing to be said about RDF/XML by me//
16:31:36 <AndyS> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:31:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
16:32:27 <TallTed> s|XML by me//XML by j22||
16:32:57 <TallTed> s|Nothing to be said about RDF/XML by me|Nothing to be said about RDF/XML by j22|
16:33:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:33:31 <AndyS> q+
16:33:48 <j22> ktk: Dominik_T: where should we put EARL implementation reports?
16:34:07 <j22> ktk: Dominik_T: where should we put EARL implementation reports? Date should be enough to know which version of tests was used
16:35:52 <j22> This is discussion if https://github.com/w3c/rdf-tests/pull/359 should be merged or not.
16:35:53 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-tests/pull/359 -> PR 359 Add rdf12conv N-Triples EARL implementation report (by domel) [report]
16:35:54 <pchampin> q+
16:36:03 <niklasl> This issue was mentioned on 2026-07-09: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/142
16:36:03 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/142 -> Issue 142 Implementation reports (by rubensworks) [enhancement] [needs discussion]
16:36:06 <ktk> ack AndyS
16:36:09 <AndyS> ack me
16:37:05 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:37:05 <j22> AndyS: suggests that PRs for now is fine, as these should be free standing documents. We can figure out what we are going to do later
16:37:37 <j22> pchampin: idea is to move test to cg repo for when there is no wg.
16:38:33 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/2026/07/09-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:38:34 <j22> pchampin: wg can endorse specific versions in the github repo but it can move to cg. implementation reports can be elsewhere.
16:39:14 <j22> pchampin: PR for implementation report can be in different spec repos
16:39:41 <j22> ktk: thinks closing is best. AndyS: thinks it is better to leave it open avoid red icon
16:40:03 <j22> AndyS: thinks we should label it and ktk: is conviced to leave it open
16:40:14 <pchampin> q+
16:40:19 <niklasl> +1 to leave it open (is seems easier to me, both for implementers and for discovering tools with support for something, to have tests and reports side-by-side)
16:40:40 <ktk> q?
16:40:42 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:41:23 <j22> pchampin: PR 280 he can resolve the git conflict and then merge it
16:41:40 <olaf> q+
16:42:23 <ktk> ack olaf
16:43:08 <ktk> q?
16:43:53 <ktk> q?
16:44:08 <pfps> Where is "SPARQL-RULES as a requirement for the current SHACL WG" in its charter?
16:44:20 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:44:20 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:44:52 <ktk> q?
16:45:09 <j22> pfps: never mind
16:45:34 <Dominik_T> rrsagent, generate the minutes
16:45:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html Dominik_T
16:46:03 <pchampin> q+
16:46:16 <ktk> regrets- olaf, niklasl
16:46:21 <j22> AndyS: has a W3C question regarding security questions. Is there a good reference to include as good material or boilerplate text? Document on the web can be evil etc.
16:46:22 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:46:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:46:46 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/TR/threat-modeling-guide/#appendix-1-minimalist-threat-model-for-the-world-wide-web
16:46:54 <j22> pchampin: treadmodelling-gc have a new guide, with a minimal guide on the open web
16:47:20 <j22> pchampin: suggests citing one of these documents
16:47:26 <TallTed> s/treadmodelling-gc/threatmodelling-cg/
16:47:28 <ktk> q?
16:47:31 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:48:11 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/TR/threat-model-web/
16:48:31 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star
16:48:55 <j22> end meeting
16:49:18 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:49:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:49:25 <j22> Zakim, end meeting
16:49:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, j, ktk, TallTed, pchampin, tl, Souri, olaf, niklasl, lisp, Tpt, pfps, Dominik_T
16:49:25 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:49:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
16:49:32 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, j22; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:49:32 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
16:50:30 <ktk> s/want to to/want to/
16:50:30 <ktk> s/reorgnize/reorganize/
16:50:31 <ktk> s/Sparql/SPARQL/
16:50:53 <ktk> s/a objection??/an objection/
16:50:54 <ktk> s/a risky regards/risky regarding/
16:51:08 <ktk> s/bad mike/bad mic/
16:51:12 <ktk> s/separtly/separately/
16:51:20 <ktk> s/discusion/discussion/
16:51:28 <ktk> s/PRs for now is fine/PRs for now are fine/
16:51:33 <ktk> s/move test to/move tests to/
16:51:38 <ktk> s/open avoid/open to avoid/
16:51:42 <ktk> s/conviced/convinced/
16:51:49 <ktk> s/(is seems/(it seems/
16:51:54 <ktk> s/threatmodelling-cg have/threatmodelling-cg has/
16:52:14 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:52:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:56:55 <ktk> RRSAgent, leave
16:56:55 <RRSAgent> I see no action items