10:54:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #data-shapes
10:54:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-irc
10:54:53 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
10:54:53 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
10:54:55 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
10:55:02 <AndyS> meeting: Data Shapes WG
10:55:13 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
10:55:23 <AndyS> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/plenary-2026-08-03.md
10:55:23 <AndyS> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/20-data-shapes-minutes.html
10:55:23 <AndyS> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/08/17-data-shapes-minutes.html
10:55:24 <agendabot> AndyS, sorry, https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/plenary-2026-08-03.md doesn't seem to exist.
10:55:56 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/plenary2026-08-03.md
10:56:20 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
10:56:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html AndyS
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11:02:41 <ieben> present+
11:03:07 <DavidHabgood> present+
11:04:12 <nicholascar> present+
11:04:19 <ajnelson-nist> present+
11:04:29 <elianaP> present+
11:04:34 <elianaP> chair: nicholascar
11:04:39 <AndyS> agenda?
11:04:41 <HolgerK> present+
11:04:57 <YoucTagh> present+
11:05:00 <AndyS> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/blob/agenda/admin/plenary2026-08-03.md
11:05:01 <agendabot> clear agenda
11:05:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Task Force reports
11:05:01 <agendabot> agenda+ General Business
11:05:24 <elianaP> topic: Task force reports
11:05:32 <mgberg> present+
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11:05:57 <elianaP> HolgerK: No updates for Core or Node Expressions. Changes to SPARQL for the rules.
11:06:58 <elianaP> ... Main changes: introduction of iterations. SHACL-AF only had 1 loop, now we have a good design for iterations aligned with SRL, with layers produced by stratification or set manually. Order is there but no longer really important.
11:07:13 <edmond> edmond has joined #data-shapes
11:07:20 <elianaP> ... Flag for run-once rules, they may e.g. produce blank nodes etc.
11:07:36 <edmond> present+
11:07:46 <elianaP> ... Support for global rules has been added, not all rules have to be attached to shapes anymore. This is also aligned with SRL.
11:09:06 <elianaP> nicholascar: For Profiling: PRs have been addressed, for background set-up tasks, including definitions. Needs another pass.
11:09:31 <elianaP> ... Profiles vocabulary is not yet out as FPWD.
11:10:29 <elianaP> ... SHACL profiling meeting this week, the plan is to tidy up documents and find incomplete things, start getting close to a final doc.
11:10:41 <elianaP> ... Profiles and recursion need more work.
11:11:25 <elianaP> ieben: For SHACL UI: SHACL renders discussed, e.g. for cases with no focus nodes, not all complex scenarios will be covered.
11:11:50 <elianaP> ... config resolution for components, auto-complete discussed by Daniel.
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11:12:50 <elianaP> ... The issue below (1083) needs more attention and the TF is having a hard time coming to an agreement, feedback from the rest of the group is requested and is welcome in the issue itself.
11:12:51 <ieben> https://github.com/w3c/data-shapes/issues/1083
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11:13:25 <elianaP> nicholascar: How close are the TFs to finishing off their deliverables?
11:13:46 <elianaP> ... Core is in a good shape. Node Expressions too.
11:13:58 <elianaP> HolgerK: SPARQL can be done by the next meeting.
11:15:00 <elianaP> nicholascar: Profiling could be finished in a couple of weeks to a month if necessary.
11:15:57 <elianaP> ieben: Time frame for UI is possibly about a month, there are pending issues such as 1083
11:16:37 <TallTed> present+
11:16:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
11:17:05 <elianaP> edmond: The goal is for the document to be done by late October. We are still on track. A few weeks to be done with the document itself, and then more time to test.
11:17:51 <elianaP> nicholascar: Sounds like we should be able to get the documents written by the end of this month (unclear for Rules).
11:18:04 <HolgerK> q+
11:18:06 <elianaP> ... We need to get serious about timelines.
11:18:23 <nicholascar> ack HolgerK
11:19:00 <elianaP> HolgerK: Last time in such a WG, it took some time for the step of the process regarding external comments.
11:20:06 <elianaP> nicholascar: We are slightly delayed, Some of the documents have gone through wide reviews, but we need some first implementations before seeking proper external reviews. We might be pushing end of December.
11:20:31 <elianaP> ... Hopefully we can get implementations done 3 months before the end of the WG
11:21:17 <elianaP> HolgerK: Do we need weekly meetings again?
11:21:24 <elianaP> nicholascar: for Profiling, probably not.
11:22:12 <elianaP> ieben: Probably don't need weekely meetings with the broader group, just the TF
11:22:34 <elianaP> ... for SHACL UI
11:22:55 <elianaP> nicholascar: Call to other TFs to meet as often as necessary to get content done by late August
11:23:23 <elianaP> AndyS: Pre-binding needs to change in SPARQL extensions document to make it non-vendor-specific
11:23:57 <elianaP> AndyS: Rules is ready for wide review.
11:24:27 <elianaP> ... We have enough in the document to get started.
11:24:56 <elianaP> ... We have longer examples in the document, references and naming and components are being worked on.
11:25:57 <elianaP> ... Input requested: optional feature for implementations, which may be moved to the appendix. We probably can't mandate imports.
11:26:34 <elianaP> ... More advanced topics: handling of bnodes in templates, document includes a solution.
11:26:47 <elianaP> ... Roadblock: naming, has to be done before wide review.
11:27:32 <elianaP> nicholascar: We need to resolve the naming discussion before moving forward.
11:28:02 <elianaP> ... Core and SPARQL only have so far gone to wide review.
11:28:11 <elianaP> ... Rest needs to be done.
11:28:35 <elianaP> ... We have received minimal feedback.
11:29:10 <nicholascar> q?
11:29:11 <elianaP> AndyS: Meeting for Rules can be weekly
11:29:26 <elianaP> topic: Rules and naming/shortcode
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11:30:19 <elianaP> nicholascar: Suggestions for new shortcode?
11:30:32 <elianaP> ... No one has objected to SRL
11:31:18 <elianaP> AndyS: We need to get our suggestion past the RDF WG
11:31:50 <elianaP> ... There is an unversioned name and it points to the latest, usually published version now
11:32:29 <elianaP> nicholascar: Any objections to SPARQL-RL?
11:33:13 <elianaP> HolgerK: If it doesn't use SPARQL syntax, I wouldn't call it SPARQL-RL anymore
11:33:31 <elianaP> AndyS: SPARQL-RL is acceptable
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11:34:21 <simonstey> present+
11:34:37 <AndyS> present+
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11:35:18 <nicholascar> present+
11:35:18 <mgberg> present+
11:35:23 <elianaP> nicholascar: No other counterproposals. Let's vote: Does this WG endorse the Rules TF to ask the SPARQL WG and other WGs to approve of SPARQL-RL?
11:35:50 <AndyS> +1
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11:35:52 <mgberg> +1
11:35:52 <edmond> +1
11:35:52 <DavidHabgood> +1
11:35:53 <nicholascar> +1
11:35:55 <elianaP> +1
11:35:56 <TallTed> +0
11:35:57 <ajnelson-nist> 0
11:35:57 <YoucTagh> +0
11:35:59 <labra> 0
11:36:02 <ieben> +1
11:36:02 <Livio> 0
11:36:04 <simonstey> +0
11:36:06 <HolgerK> -0.9
11:36:38 <labra> present+
11:36:47 <elianaP> nicholascar: There is a clear direction in the votes so we will move forward with this.
11:37:03 <elianaP> ... AndyS will ask the SPARQL WG about this.
11:37:48 <elianaP> ajnelson-nist: Given HolgerK's earlier remark about the syntax, we will have to mention the syntax to the SPARQL WG too.
11:38:24 <elianaP> AndyS: SPARQL WG is having weekly meetings right now, by our next meeting the point can likely have been raised there.
11:38:36 <AndyS> q+
11:39:00 <elianaP> simonstey: Why not stick to shapes/shacl RL?
11:39:28 <elianaP> ... Is anyone against Shapes/SHACL-RL?
11:39:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
11:39:51 <elianaP> HolgerK: It is still not about shapes, more in general about RDF
11:40:05 <nicholascar> ack AndyS
11:40:37 <elianaP> AndyS: SHACL rules now have something called  shapes rule
11:40:55 <elianaP> ... The syntax is not SHACL but RDF. It is only CONSTRUCT
11:41:21 <elianaP> HolgerK: There is a way forward, if the document uses both syntaxes: SPARQL-equivalent would also be allowed
11:41:33 <elianaP> ... RDF syntax should probably just be removed
11:41:44 <elianaP> AndyS: The RDF syntax was included by request
11:42:13 <elianaP> nicholascar: Maybe the best thing to do is ask the SPARQL WG
11:42:41 <elianaP> HolgerK: The problem is, the current content of the SPARQL document is also SPARQL rules
11:42:52 <elianaP> AndyS: The full name should be SHACL SPARQL rules
11:43:12 <elianaP> HolgerK: People are going to get mixed up
11:43:36 <elianaP> nicholascar: SHACL 1.2 rules for SPARQL document, the other WG can determine the name for the other rules
11:44:40 <elianaP> ... Suggestion is to generalize the naming of that document.
11:44:57 <elianaP> HolgerK: The document has more SHACL features
11:45:54 <elianaP> ... SHACL SPARQL rules are the only type of rules that currently exists
11:46:20 <elianaP> ... Do we want to put yet another document out there?
11:46:52 <elianaP> HolgerK: We could restart triple rules, they are easy to implement and design
11:47:09 <elianaP> ... the other implementation is javascript rules
11:47:38 <elianaP> nicholascar: In other documents, we have tried to include one thing as canonical
11:48:19 <elianaP> ... we do need a second rules implementation in that document
11:48:42 <elianaP> HolgerK: The alternative is to not talk about this optional extension point.
11:49:33 <elianaP> AndyS: We have to at least define the type of the extension
11:50:19 <elianaP> HolgerK: Happy to not talk about the example/extension and leave it for a future document
11:50:45 <elianaP> nicholascar: We can ask the other WG what name they find more appropriate
11:51:32 <elianaP> ... They probably won't want to publish another document
11:52:48 <elianaP> nicholascar: It's up to the Rule TF to decide
11:53:23 <elianaP> ... can we ask the other WG if they are happy with SPARQL-RL or do they prefer another SPARQL/RDF/SRL combination for the document?
11:55:19 <elianaP> simonstey: Maybe Data Shapes Rules
11:55:43 <elianaP> AndyS: the term is being reused already by Holger
11:56:18 <elianaP> nicholascar: Our previous vote stands: SPARQL-RL, or do they suggest something else?
11:57:09 <simonstey> https://shaclrules.com/
11:57:18 <elianaP> AndyS: there is a website: https://shaclrules.com/
11:58:46 <elianaP> Ongjen: Could write a short document summarising and sending it around
11:58:53 <elianaP> nicholascar: probably too late for that
11:59:50 <elianaP> nicholascar: we can look at raised issues at the next meeting
12:00:00 <nicholascar> q?
12:00:21 <elianaP> nicholascar: no other points, next meeting is in 2 wreeks
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12:01:06 <elianaP> .. Task force meetings this week
12:01:26 <elianaP> ... Core, SPARQL and node expressions not meetintg
12:01:44 <elianaP> ... Please finish your content!
12:02:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
12:03:06 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
12:03:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ieben, DavidHabgood, nicholascar, ajnelson-nist, elianaP, HolgerK, YoucTagh, mgberg, edmond, TallTed, simonstey, AndyS, labra
12:03:09 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:03:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-data-shapes-minutes.html Zakim
12:03:14 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
12:03:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #data-shapes
12:03:22 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave.
12:03:22 <RRSAgent> I see no action items