15:43:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
15:43:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-irc
15:43:11 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
15:43:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:43:13 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
15:43:17 <AndyS> meeting: RDF and SPARQL Working Group
15:43:29 <AndyS> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/23-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:43:29 <AndyS> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/08/06-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:43:42 <AndyS> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20260730T120000/#agenda
15:43:42 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:43:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/07/16-rdf-star-minutes.html  -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2026/07/23-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:43:42 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
15:43:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
15:43:44 <agendabot> agenda+ Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
15:43:47 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
15:43:55 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
15:44:02 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:44:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
15:44:15 <AndyS> agenda?
15:54:10 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
15:57:18 <lisp> lisp has joined #rdf-star
15:58:19 <ktk> present+
15:58:29 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
15:59:31 <TallTed> present+
15:59:43 <tl> present+
15:59:57 <pfps> present+
16:00:10 <pfps> scribe+
16:00:19 <AndyS> present+
16:00:49 <ktk> regrets+ pchampin
16:00:59 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
16:01:07 <doerthe> present+
16:01:45 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
16:01:56 <ktk> regrets+ olaf
16:02:25 <ktk> regrets+ niklasl
16:02:29 <ora> present+
16:02:34 <ora> chair+
16:02:44 <AndyS> regrets+ niklas
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:03:24 <gtw> present+
16:03:32 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:03:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/07/16-rdf-star-minutes.html  -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2026/07/23-rdf-star-minutes.html --
16:03:35 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:43 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
16:03:48 <pfps> ora: Minutes
16:03:56 <pfps> look find to me
16:04:01 <pfps> s/find/fine/
16:04:13 <ora> PROPOSAL: Approve last two weeks' minutes
16:04:21 <ktk> +1
16:04:22 <tl> +1
16:04:23 <AndyS> +1
16:04:29 <ora> +0.5 (not present on the 23rd)
16:04:30 <pfps> +1
16:04:32 <TallTed> +1
16:04:43 <niklasl> +present
16:04:45 <doerthe> +0
16:04:46 <niklasl> +0 (wasn't present)
16:05:05 <lisp> +1
16:05:16 <gtw> +1 (I was present on 16 July, but missing from the present list)
16:05:29 <ora> RESOLVED: Approve last two weeks' minutes
16:05:35 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:05:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
16:06:04 <AndyS> present+ niklasl
16:06:15 <pfps> ora: ISWC email done, they understand our constraints and things should work out
16:06:25 <pfps> ora: I'll close the action
16:06:31 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:06:31 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, ktk
16:06:36 <ktk> Zakim, close item 2
16:06:36 <Zakim> agendum 2, Review of open actions, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3, closed
16:06:38 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:38 <Zakim> 3. Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 [from agendabot]
16:06:42 <ktk> Zakim, open item 3
16:06:42 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:07:36 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-quads/pull/108
16:07:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-quads/pull/108 -> PR 108 Undefined errors (by lisp)
16:07:44 <pfps> ora: James, were you able to add the compliance bit
16:08:10 <pfps> lisp: see above, this is the minimal wording as I said last week
16:09:48 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/152
16:09:49 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/152 -> PR 152 address erratum 14 (by pchampin) [ms:CR]
16:09:52 <pfps> ora: where are we with erratum 14
16:10:27 <pfps> andys: what I didn't understand is comment from pchampin
16:11:31 <AndyS> I'll update the PR for the agreed changes.
16:12:26 <pfps> ora: is this a broader question than just the Turtle spec?
16:12:57 <pfps> andys: the "may not" in quoted literals are just observations, not in defining text
16:13:13 <pfps> ora: this is about formal wording
16:13:23 <ora> q?
16:13:28 <pfps> andys: yes
16:13:37 <ktk> regrets+ Souri
16:14:24 <pfps> ora: how much work should be put into improving wording
16:14:52 <pfps> andys: the issue here is the use of "may not", perhaps change to "cannot"
16:15:00 <niklasl> +1 "cannot" makes it clear and avoids misinterpretation (it's about consequences of the concrete grammar)
16:15:52 <pfps> ora: should we go through all the specs looking for "may not"
16:16:38 <pfps> andys: the errata appears to be about a specific part of one document
16:17:28 <pfps> andys: OK, I'll see how far I can get
16:18:43 <pfps> andys: I looked through the rdf-tests ones, I need to look at #363; #356 is stalled; #354 is a draft
16:18:44 <gb> Issue 356 not found
16:18:44 <gb> Issue 354 not found
16:18:44 <gb> Issue 363 not found
16:19:18 <pfps> andys: I don't think we can resolve any of these today
16:19:23 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-new/pull/18
16:19:24 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-new/pull/18 -> PR 18 what properties can or should link to triple terms? (by rdfguy)
16:19:36 <pfps> ktk: rdf-new PR?
16:19:56 <pfps> ora: I need to recreate my lost files and get rdf-new moving
16:20:24 <pfps> ora: I'll get this going by two weeks from now
16:20:43 <pfps> ora: Is that all?
16:21:58 <pfps> ora: I don't understand tests #360
16:21:58 <gb> Issue 360 not found
16:22:42 <pfps> andys: should work
16:22:58 <pfps> ora: someone who understands Ruby might look at this
16:23:09 <pfps> andy: it's a patch so just put it in
16:23:52 <pfps> ora: what about the SPARQL PRs?
16:24:38 <pfps> ora: #409 is waiting for andys
16:24:39 <gb> Issue 409 not found
16:24:46 <pfps> andys: I just approved and merged it
16:25:33 <pfps> ktk: #280 was discussed last week, pchampin still needs to look at it
16:25:34 <gb> Issue 280 not found
16:26:01 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:26:01 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:26:25 <pfps> ktk: still a long list of open items
16:28:44 <pfps> ora: there are a whole bunch of editorials, some bugs ..
16:28:57 <pfps> ora: what are the two different bug tags
16:29:16 <pfps> andys: just historical - the mean the same
16:29:41 <pfps> ora: ok, also for other variations
16:30:42 <pfps> andys: #146 refers to a closed PR
16:30:43 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/146 -> Issue 146 [Editorial] Need to improve presentation of, e.g., `"&quot;" (1 double quote)` (by TallTed) [documentation]
16:31:22 <pfps> ora: close it
16:32:17 <pfps> ktk: in the chairs' call lets discuss how to attack these
16:32:22 <pfps> ora: OK
16:33:04 <pfps> andys: the timeline for the RDF and SPARQL ones are different
16:33:14 <pfps> andys: some of these may end up being d
16:33:27 <pfps> andys: some of these may end up being deffered to maintenance mode
16:33:55 <tl> s/deffered/deferred
16:34:00 <pfps> ora: there are two big categories - editorial, bugs, enhancement ... spanish inquisition
16:34:19 <pfps> ora: splitting between RDF and SPARQL makes sense
16:34:49 <pfps> ora: also to discuss at the chairs' meeting
16:35:01 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:35:01 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:35:20 <pfps> ora: any other business
16:36:43 <pfps> ora: I gave an interview related to 25 year of RDF
16:36:51 <pfps> ora: not much about RDF 1.2
16:37:18 <pfps> ora: anything on implementations
16:37:31 <lisp> q+
16:37:46 <ora> ack lisp
16:37:52 <pfps> ktk: QLever 1.2 is not yet
16:38:15 <pfps> lisp: I posted a note to the mailing list with links to our implementation
16:38:18 <TallTed> the ODBMS.org interview -> https://www.odbms.org/2026/07/from-the-semantic-web-to-agentic-ai-ora-lassila-on-knowledge-graphs-llms-and-the-architecture-of-machine-understanding/
16:38:30 <pfps> ora: what was difficult
16:39:03 <pfps> lisp: there is the issue of leaking information in a dictionary-based implementation
16:39:21 <pfps> lisp: things went much as I expected in the implementation
16:40:27 <pfps> lisp: unasserted triples require indexing
16:40:54 <pfps> lisp: we ended up associating unasserted triples with their reifier
16:41:37 <pfps> ora: I would like to have a implementers' meeting at some point
16:41:50 <pfps> lisp: my posts are quite detailed
16:44:13 <pfps> * I think claudish is the best
16:44:22 <pfps> ora: anything else?
16:44:25 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:44:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:45:10 <pfps> ora: adjourn
16:46:57 <ktk> s/the mean the same/they mean the same/
16:47:12 <ktk> s/25 year of RDF/25 years of RDF/
16:47:24 <ktk> s/a implementers' meeting/an implementers' meeting/
16:47:32 <ktk> s/is comment from pchampin/is the comment from pchampin/
16:47:45 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:47:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/30-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:50:10 <ktk> Zakim, leave
16:50:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been ktk, TallTed, tl, pfps, AndyS, doerthe, ora, gtw, present, niklasl
16:50:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
16:50:12 <ktk> RRSAgent, leave
16:50:12 <RRSAgent> I see no action items