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13:59:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
13:59:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/bc0bed33-fd93-40a6-95bb-10f27c641863/20260729T100000/#agenda
13:59:37 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
13:59:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
13:59:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
13:59:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
14:00:41 <smaug> just a sec
14:01:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
14:01:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
14:02:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
14:02:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: harmonisation of spec with new added mouse and wheel events
14:04:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: last time we met, we continued work/discussion of how to integrate the mouse and wheel things better, since they use different format
14:05:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: from the minutes last time https://www.w3.org/2026/07/01-pointerevents-minutes.html#ActionSummary had an initial look with Olli about what parts of the tables seem redundant
14:05:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: working on branch here https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/tree/patrickhlauke-harmonise-with-ui-events
14:09:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: outlining my initial big work ... the biggest part is I tried what it would look like moving the mouse and wheel sections to the end, keeping the bulk of the spec to be pointer events. thoughts?
14:09:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we could also do with Examples for mouse (and wheel). effectively this spec has now morphed into the mouse events and pointer events spec... but in principle, not opposed to this
14:10:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: yeah i like it as well, as it highlights that PE are newer
14:12:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I could also conceive that in future, pointer events will include/subsume wheel events (same way devs should use PE instead of mouse)
14:13:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: note that in the introduction, we still have a link to UIEvents
14:13:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: doh, will fix in my branch too
14:14:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: you could also add something to the intro to "Mouse Events and Interfaces" saying that authors should consider using PE
14:15:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: yeah, probably also good to add some context there... "PE are built ontop of mouse events, that's why this is here...but for new projects authors should consider using PE directly..."
14:17:59 <smaug> https://mozilla.pettay.fi/composed-events-dispatch.html
14:22:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: other aspect i did in my draft version: i ripped out some of the rows (like sync/async, default action, composed) from the tables for mouse/wheel events.
14:24:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: question is...have i ripped out too much? not enough? and once we settle on a good table format, i think we discussed introducing the same table for the PE, as it would make it more immediately skimmable for developers and implementers
14:25:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: things like coordinates...always the same, so repetitious stuff,and we already clarify that in MouseEvent itself
14:26:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: the sync/async ... i think all events are sync. only scroll event is async?
14:26:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: isn't it sync?
14:26:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: it's a posted task...
14:26:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: it's not part of PE
14:27:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: sure, but just as example that devs should not expect it right away/to be sync
14:28:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: for things like bubbles and cancelable, in future we may have an algo that defines these thing...but then, it might still be nice to have a quick glance
14:28:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: composed is something i often need to refer back to
14:30:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: what about all other things in context? can rip out screenX, layerX, etc. what about UIEvent.view, Event.target...
14:32:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: only UIEvent.detail, button, buttons, and relatedTarget are the only ones we need to keep there...
14:33:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: but even those are defined already in the interface definition... so really just UIEvent.details ? and cases where things are weird.
14:33:31 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/uievents/pull/413
14:34:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: actually, weird question... mouse and wheel in their definition still point to UIEvent. so will that spec still exist? and just define the high-level concept of a UIEvent? or will it move to DOM spec, or HTML spec, or whatever?
14:34:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: similar with target... (see above PR)
14:35:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: does this affect some of our algos?
14:35:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: you could end up with weird questions like "can i pointerlock a pseudo element" (?)
14:35:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: we may need to open an issue - "does it affect any places in our spec"
14:37:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: pointer capture, we might need to change something there
14:37:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Rob to open an issue about changes needed to our algos with regards to UI Events changes (target / pseudo target?)
14:38:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: and pointerlock spec might also need to ask themselves that question
14:42:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick continue process of simplifying/chopping tables from mouse/wheel - once we get to a nice workable table there, start porting the same type of table to pointer events
14:48:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
14:48:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, generate minutes
14:48:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
14:49:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, bye
14:49:08 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
14:49:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Rob to open an issue about changes needed to our algos with regards to UI Events changes (target / pseudo target?) [1]
14:49:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-pointerevents-irc#T14-37-58
14:49:08 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick continue process of simplifying/chopping tables from mouse/wheel - once we get to a nice workable table there, start porting the same type of table to pointer events [2]
14:49:08 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-pointerevents-irc#T14-42-11