12:58:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
12:58:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-matf-irc
12:58:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:58:52 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ
12:58:57 <JJ> Zakim, this is MATF 29 July 2026
12:58:57 <Zakim> got it, JJ
12:59:04 <JJ> Meeting: MATF 29 July 2026
12:59:09 <JJ> chair+
12:59:30 <JJ> agenda+ Success Criterion 2.5.3 Label in Name
12:59:35 <JJ> agenda+ Success Criterion 2.5.7 Dragging Movements
12:59:40 <JJ> agenda+ Success Criterion 3.2.2 On Input
12:59:45 <JJ> agenda+ Success Criterion 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum)
12:59:50 <JJ> agenda+ Definitions drafts
13:00:07 <quintinb> quintinb has joined #MATF
13:03:27 <Joe_Humbert> Joe_Humbert has joined #matf
13:04:40 <RobW> RobW has joined #matf
13:04:45 <RobW> present+
13:05:47 <Joe_Humbert> present+
13:05:57 <quintinb> scribe: quintinb
13:06:51 <quintinb> :thumbs-up
13:06:52 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:06:52 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Success Criterion 2.5.3 Label in Name -- taken up [from JJ]
13:07:03 <JJ> github.com/w3c/matf/pull/223
13:10:08 <JJ> q?
13:10:23 <RobW> q+
13:10:29 <JJ> ack RobW
13:11:27 <quintinb> RobW I was in most of the sessions - roughly I would be happy to drop it for the draft if it's controversial, but it seems to have declined. My preference would be to keep it as you've written it
13:12:02 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert we went around in circles a bit - between the minutes and logs it's all there.
13:12:39 <quintinb> I think we can merge it
13:13:05 <JJ> Poll: Merge Pull Request for 2.5.3 as is (with note 2)? Agree: +1. Neutral 0. Disagree: -1.
13:13:12 <quintinb> +1
13:13:14 <shoobe01> +1
13:13:16 <RobW> +1
13:13:29 <JJ> +1
13:13:31 <quintinb> I just want to confirm, is Paul's concern we're doing too much or is there a greater concern?
13:14:00 <Joe_Humbert> +1, I think we need to move forward and we can make changes in the final note
13:15:02 <JJ> Today's groups in favor of merging with 5x +1
13:17:00 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:17:28 <JJ> ack Joe_Humbert
13:17:47 <RobW> RobW has joined #matf
13:18:20 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert I just want to get into the note - the reason we have had so much discussion is there is no consistency in patterns. It's a convenient pattern for dev and design, but not for users
13:18:28 <quintinb> Thanks Joe_Humbert
13:18:45 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:18:45 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Success Criterion 2.5.7 Dragging Movements -- taken up [from JJ]
13:18:55 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/295
13:19:10 <JJ> github.com/w3c/matf/issues/289
13:22:54 <JJ> q?
13:23:55 <shoobe01> q+
13:26:39 <JJ> ack shoobe01
13:26:40 <JJ> ack shoobe
13:28:29 <quintinb> shoobe01 We use the terms "underlying layer" in a confusing way - we need to come up with a placeholder or something
13:29:59 <quintinb> ACTION: Update the underlying layer terminology
13:30:37 <quintinb> ACTION: Re-word "responsibility layer" so that it relates to the diagram better
13:31:00 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:31:00 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Success Criterion 3.2.2 On Input -- taken up [from JJ]
13:31:08 <JJ> github.com/w3c/matf/pull/294
13:31:15 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/42
13:32:39 <shoobe01> q+
13:32:44 <Joe_Humbert> q+
13:33:06 <JJ> ack Joe_Humbert
13:33:35 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert Just something you said - technically if WCAG did changed the note, then we'd have to change.
13:33:42 <JJ> ack shoobe
13:34:14 <JJ> shoobe: references https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/198
13:34:52 <quintinb> shoobe01 whoever opened 198 - auto submitting information. I'm worried about the intent from understanding is that you can't just do that - if you type into a field... I'm worried we're trapping people where simple inputs can't do simple actions
13:37:28 <JJ> Poll: Merge PR for 3.2.2 as proposed? +1 if you agree, -1 if you do not, 0 if neutral
13:37:36 <quintinb> +1
13:37:38 <Joe_Humbert> +1
13:37:41 <RobW> +1
13:37:46 <shoobe01> 0
13:37:53 <JJ> +1
13:38:05 <JJ> Result: 4x +1 and 1x 0 for merging 3.2.2
13:38:19 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:38:19 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Success Criterion 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) -- taken up [from JJ]
13:38:28 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/291
13:38:36 <shoobe01> q+
13:40:22 <JJ> ack shoobe
13:41:14 <quintinb> shoobe01 - there is something not showing on git - in the preview it's not showing as new
13:41:36 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert I think they added that somehow that we haven't figured out
13:42:00 <quintinb> Joe_Humbert I think they add the word "new" somehow
13:45:33 <quintinb> ACTION: Include the W3C difference service to easily see all of the content we've added
13:45:46 <JJ> q?
13:46:28 <RobW> RobW has joined #matf
13:47:32 <quintinb> shoobe01 Is there a batter way to say this or do we make specific suggestions? Or better phrasing?
13:48:02 <quintinb> q+
13:48:03 <RobW> q+
13:48:32 <JJ> ack quintinb
13:49:42 <quintinb> I do think we need to have some kind of size given.... Is the requirement that touch target size is measurable by a 3rd party?
13:50:23 <RobW> q-
13:51:45 <RobW> q+
13:52:12 <JJ> ack RobW
13:52:13 <quintinb> quintinb we need to be considerate about hitslops and how they obfuscate target size from people - testability is important
13:52:59 <quintinb> RobW I am going to question quinitn's assertion that we need to take hitslops into account - on web it would be the same. You assess it the same way
13:56:28 <quintinb> shoobe01 the visible size and the target size are not necessarily to be the same. I'm lost about what JJ said we needed a note for
13:57:49 <JJ> move to next agendum
13:57:49 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Definitions drafts -- taken up [from JJ]
13:57:52 <JJ> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/293
13:58:07 <JJ> Minutes from last week about the draft definitions: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-matf-minutes.html
14:01:51 <JJ> Zakim, list participants
14:01:51 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been RobW, Joe_Humbert
14:01:56 <JJ> present+ quintinb
14:02:02 <JJ> present+ shoobe
14:02:05 <JJ> regrets+ Tanya
14:02:11 <JJ> rrsagent, make minutes
14:02:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-matf-minutes.html JJ
14:04:25 <JJ> JJ has joined #matf
14:04:29 <JJ> rrsagent, bye
14:04:29 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-matf-actions.rdf :
14:04:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Update the underlying layer terminology [1]
14:04:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-matf-irc#T13-29-59
14:04:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Re-word "responsibility layer" so that it relates to the diagram better [2]
14:04:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-matf-irc#T13-30-37
14:04:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Include the W3C difference service to easily see all of the content we've added [3]
14:04:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/07/29-matf-irc#T13-45-33