13:50:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
13:50:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-irc
13:50:40 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
13:50:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:50:42 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
13:50:47 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
13:51:02 <acoburn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260727T100000/#agenda
13:51:02 <agendabot> clear agenda
13:51:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Introductions and announcements
13:51:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Vote: Storage Description as CID -> PR#183 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/183
13:51:02 <agendabot> agenda+ Vote: LWS Protocol Introduction -> PR#158 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158
13:51:03 <agendabot> agenda+ Vote: LWS Diagrams -> PR#159 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/159
13:51:06 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion: Add Threat Model document -> PR#202 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/202
13:51:07 <acoburn> present+
13:51:09 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion: Consolidate ConNeg requirements -> PR#190 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/190
13:51:12 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion: JSON-LD Context & Vocabulary -> PR#187 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/187 and -> PR#199 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/199
13:51:15 <agendabot> agenda+ Discussion: Privacy Considerations -> PR#206 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/206
13:51:49 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
13:51:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html acoburn
13:52:14 <acoburn> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/20-lws-minutes.html
13:52:33 <acoburn> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/08/03-lws-minutes.html
13:52:39 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
13:52:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:01:55 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #lws
14:02:07 <gibsonf1> gibsonf1 has joined #lws
14:02:07 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik has joined #lws
14:02:12 <gibsonf1> present+
14:02:28 <elf-pavlik> present+
14:03:15 <pchampin> present+
14:03:20 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 1
14:03:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions and announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:03:24 <jeremycaine> jeremycaine has joined #lws
14:03:27 <AZ> AZ has joined #lws
14:03:31 <AZ> present+
14:03:31 <jeremycaine> present+
14:04:16 <elf-pavlik> scribe+
14:05:02 <TallTed> present+
14:05:23 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
14:05:29 <ericP> present+
14:05:34 <ericP> chair: ericP
14:06:18 <ericP> next agendum
14:06:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:06:48 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: it's been open for a few weeks, we worked on some revisions
14:07:08 <elf-pavlik> ... it takes current storge description resource and makes it represented as CID
14:07:27 <elf-pavlik> ... main advantage is that it allows us to use other W3C specs, rather then reinventing things
14:07:39 <acoburn> PROPOSAL: Define the Storage Description Resource as a specialization of CID-1.0 as described in https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/183
14:07:39 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/183 -> PR 183 Define Storage Description Resources as a specialization of CID-1.0 (by acoburn) [storage-description]
14:08:25 <elf-pavlik> +1
14:08:31 <gibsonf1> +1
14:08:31 <acoburn> +1
14:08:34 <pchampin> +1
14:08:39 <ericP> +1
14:08:45 <jeremycaine> +1
14:08:45 <AZ> +0 (I have not followed enough the recent discussions to decide)
14:09:07 <TallTed> +0
14:09:19 <acoburn> RESOLVED: Define the Storage Description Resource as a specialization of CID-1.0 as described in https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/183
14:09:30 <ericP> next agendum
14:09:53 <ericP> zakim, next agendum
14:09:53 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, ericP
14:10:31 <elf-pavlik> jeremycaine: introduction section hasn't changed much in last weeks
14:10:38 <elf-pavlik> ... just few final edits
14:10:39 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:10:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:11:00 <elf-pavlik> ... something about apostrophes which i need to understand
14:11:12 <TallTed> q+
14:11:14 <pchampin> q+
14:11:14 <elf-pavlik> ... can we merge on assumption that I'll fixt it?
14:11:30 <elf-pavlik> ericP: we can merge but it may be easier for you to fix it fixt it first
14:11:39 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: I think it should be merged before vote is taken
14:12:39 <pchampin> i/it's been open for a few week/topic: Storage Description as CID -> PR#183 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/183
14:13:11 <ericP> ack next
14:13:17 <ericP> ack next
14:14:28 <pchampin> i/introduction section hasn't changed/topic: LWS Protocol Introduction -> PR#158 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158
14:14:42 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:14:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:14:52 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik has joined #lws
14:14:59 <acoburn> q+ to talk about merge mechanics
14:15:07 <elf-pavlik> scribe+
14:15:33 <elf-pavlik> ericP: PR is doing IPR check
14:15:57 <elf-pavlik> ... I will propose that we merge #158 after jeremycaine lets use know it's ready
14:15:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158 -> PR 158 Add introduction section (by jeremycaine)
14:17:59 <elf-pavlik> jeswr: looks like a bug in a CI
14:18:12 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: are we going to vote on it?
14:18:17 <elf-pavlik> ericP: i think we should vote
14:18:41 <ericP> PROPOSED: merge PR#158 pending jeremycaine's minor fixes
14:18:48 <acoburn> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260727T100000/
14:18:53 <elf-pavlik> +1
14:19:04 <ericP> PROPOSAL: Adopt introduction text from https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158
14:19:10 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
14:19:12 <ericP> +1
14:19:15 <jeremycaine> +1
14:19:16 <TallTed> +1
14:19:20 <acoburn> +1
14:19:23 <TallTed> s/PROPOSED: merge PR#158 pending jeremycaine's minor fixes//
14:19:29 <gibsonf1> +1
14:19:40 <ericP> APPROVED: Adopt introduction text from https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158
14:19:40 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158 -> PR 158 Add introduction section (by jeremycaine)
14:20:08 <ericP> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:20:08 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Vote: LWS Diagrams -> PR#159 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/159 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:20:11 <ryey> present+
14:20:42 <elf-pavlik> jeremycaine: there were some issues with git push, not all images are correct
14:20:56 <elf-pavlik> ... TallTed has some comments on styles
14:21:18 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
14:21:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html acoburn
14:21:25 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: sorry I couldn't get to it sooner
14:21:26 <elf-pavlik> ... there are bunch of comments on the style
14:21:34 <elf-pavlik> ... is there an intent to change pngs to svg
14:21:56 <elf-pavlik> ... party because that we will need to figure out textual description to satisfy accessibility
14:21:58 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:22:13 <elf-pavlik> jeremycaine: I didn't add any of that just used default rendering
14:22:30 <TallTed> s/party because/partly because/
14:22:47 <ericP> ack next
14:22:48 <TallTed> s/is there an intent to change pngs to svg/is there an intent to change pngs to svg?/
14:22:49 <elf-pavlik> ... do we want to merge it and fix styles later
14:22:49 <Zakim> acoburn, you wanted to talk about merge mechanics
14:23:27 <acoburn> q-
14:23:33 <ericP> elf-pavlik: suggest merging. we need to model to base other PRs. we can address alt text etc later.
14:23:43 <acoburn> ack elf-pavlik
14:23:57 <ericP> ... re SVG, I don't think there's an easy way to get SVGs;
14:24:17 <acoburn> q+ to propose we focus on content now and fix style separately
14:24:41 <ericP> jeremycaine: is there a simple list for accessibility?
14:24:43 <elf-pavlik> jeremycaine: are there accessiblity guidelines?
14:25:05 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: there aren't great guides, we should have some textual descriptions
14:25:16 <elf-pavlik> ... they are usually manually constructed
14:25:30 <elf-pavlik> ... starting from SVG is easier
14:25:36 <ericP> TallTed: they rules are complex. generally manually produced from SVG to allow for cut and paste
14:25:38 <elf-pavlik> ... this way one doesn't have to retype
14:25:46 <elf-pavlik> q+ to ask to have a separte PR for that
14:26:11 <elf-pavlik> jeremycaine: I think we can merge and come back, not to block threat model
14:26:19 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: I would like to open issues sooner than later
14:26:42 <elf-pavlik> jeremycaine: i can merge it today tomorrow
14:27:14 <ericP> elf-pavlik: we should ask "is this an improvement"?
14:27:24 <ericP> ... we can convert PR comments to issues.
14:27:50 <TallTed> (How did we arrive at creating these in c4? I know other tools are being used in other WGs, often to produce far more complex graphics. This might be worth some exploration.)
14:27:50 <ericP> ... i would like to merge this C4 file
14:28:06 <ericP> PROPOSAL: Adopt diagrams included in https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/159
14:28:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/159 -> PR 159 Add scope diagrams section with C4 Level 1 and Level 2 diagrams (by jeremycaine)
14:28:10 <acoburn> q-
14:28:16 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:28:41 <elf-pavlik> +1
14:28:43 <gibsonf1> +1
14:28:46 <jeremycaine> +1
14:28:47 <ericP> +1
14:28:50 <TallTed> +1
14:28:51 <acoburn> +1
14:29:01 <pchampin> +1
14:29:03 <AZ> +1
14:29:04 <ericP> APPROVED: Adopt diagrams included in https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/159
14:29:13 <ericP> Zakim, next agendum
14:29:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Vote: LWS Protocol Introduction -> PR#158 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:29:24 <ryey> +1
14:29:24 <TallTed> Zakim, close item 3
14:29:24 <Zakim> agendum 3, Vote: LWS Protocol Introduction -> PR#158 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158, closed
14:29:26 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:29:26 <Zakim> 5. Discussion: Add Threat Model document -> PR#202 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/202 [from agendabot]
14:29:27 <ericP> Zakim, take up agendum 5
14:29:27 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Discussion: Add Threat Model document -> PR#202 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/202 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:30:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:30:34 <TallTed> s/APPROVED: Adopt diagrams/RESOLVED: Adopt diagrams/
14:30:50 <ericP> elf-pavlik: since we want to model on top of 159, we're not ready to merge 202
14:30:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:31:13 <ericP> ... i will rebase on top of 159
14:32:01 <TallTed> s/agendum 3 -- Vote: LWS Protocol Introduction -> PR#158 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158 -- taken up [from agendabot]//
14:32:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:32:27 <ericP> PROPOSED: Add Threat Model document PR#202
14:32:27 <gb> Issue 202 not found
14:32:32 <elf-pavlik> ericP: anyone thinks they will vote agains?
14:33:23 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: given it wasn't on agenda as a vote I'll rather push that
14:33:42 <elf-pavlik> ericP: anything more to dicuss on it today?
14:34:03 <ericP> elf-pavlik: nope, just everyone take a look (before monday morning)
14:34:18 <ericP> Zakim, next agendum
14:34:18 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Discussion: Consolidate ConNeg requirements -> PR#190 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/190 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:34:56 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: i'll give it some context, sharing screen...
14:35:36 <elf-pavlik> ... there are two things, the first is fixing some media types e.g., going from ld+json to lws+json
14:35:51 <elf-pavlik> ... some duplicate statements about conneg and media types, now in single section
14:36:09 <elf-pavlik> ... more about media type equivalence than content negotiation
14:36:25 <elf-pavlik> ... ld+json, lws+json gives the same representation
14:36:25 <TallTed> q+
14:36:35 <ericP> q+ to ask if there was a discussion of lsw+js+json?
14:36:40 <elf-pavlik> ... conneg which is not specified would be converting it to turtle or xml
14:37:01 <elf-pavlik> ... it reflects more closely what this spec defines
14:37:17 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: in my universe is more about conneg but i ok with using both in a title
14:37:34 <elf-pavlik> ... server MUST honor request and set content type, that is explicitly content type negotiation
14:37:53 <elf-pavlik> ... using both in the title may communicate things better if someone searches
14:37:58 <ericP> ack next
14:38:01 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: that would be a great clarification
14:38:02 <ericP> ack next
14:38:03 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if there was a discussion of lsw+js+json?
14:38:26 <elf-pavlik> ericP: do you know if that was discussed?
14:38:47 <pchampin> +1 TallTed, we are talking about "Accept" and "Content-type", so that *is* content negotiation, though I understand the distinction between "conneg for equivalent mediatypes" vs. "conneg for different representations"
14:38:47 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: I don't think if it was, I've never seen media type like that, not sure if that's common
14:38:47 <TallTed> q+
14:38:53 <ericP> s/lsw+js+json/lws+jd+json/
14:38:58 <elf-pavlik> ericP: it has been discussed before in other scenarios
14:39:00 <ericP> ack next
14:39:19 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: I was involved in many discussed, at this point they are explicitly disallowed
14:39:35 <elf-pavlik> ... i'll try to find a reference
14:39:42 <elf-pavlik> ericP: do you know why?
14:40:12 <elf-pavlik> ... I think it is something useful
14:40:26 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: I was co-editing RFC that defines such behavior
14:40:37 <elf-pavlik> ... we were strongly opposed
14:41:17 <TallTed> and then I found it -- https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-mediaman-suffixes-07.html
14:41:36 <elf-pavlik> TallTed can you please drop link here if you find it? https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/188
14:41:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/188 -> Issue 188 Create reference explaining consistent use of HTTP content-type, profile, prefer etc. (by elf-pavlik)
14:42:06 <elf-pavlik> ericP: asking about details of that IETF discussions
14:42:36 <elf-pavlik> ... msporny may recall more details
14:42:44 <ericP> Zakim, next agendum
14:42:44 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Discussion: JSON-LD Context & Vocabulary -> PR#187 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/187 and -> PR#199 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/199 -- taken up
14:42:47 <Zakim> ... [from agendabot]
14:43:05 <elf-pavlik> s/... msporny/TallTed: msporny/
14:43:19 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: both relate to json-ld section
14:43:51 <elf-pavlik> ... #199 only makes adjustments to the vocab, we use YAML as the cannonical source
14:43:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/199 -> PR 199 Add terms used by the Access Request feature (by acoburn) [vocabulary]
14:44:10 <elf-pavlik> ... spec already uses them, we just add missing definitions in the vocab
14:44:22 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: #187 reworks json-ld section
14:44:22 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/187 -> PR 187 Rework JSON-LD context section (by acoburn) [editorial] [vocabulary]
14:45:06 <elf-pavlik> ... at present there is a verbatum context, generally specs don't do it
14:45:21 <elf-pavlik> ... now it follows more modern approach how VC spec and CID spec are doing it
14:45:38 <elf-pavlik> ... just URL and the SHA2-256 digest
14:45:48 <elf-pavlik> ... it helps people with supply chain validation etc.
14:46:01 <elf-pavlik> ... we are also advising not to fetch context a runtime
14:46:09 <elf-pavlik> q+ to mention w3c rate limits
14:46:24 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: please review them
14:47:41 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: in #187 I took bigbluehat's suggestions and I joined json-ld wg meeting to discuss it in more detail
14:48:00 <ericP> ack next
14:48:01 <Zakim> elf-pavlik, you wanted to mention w3c rate limits
14:48:57 <ericP> Zakim, next agendum
14:48:57 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Discussion: Privacy Considerations -> PR#206 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/206 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:48:59 <elf-pavlik> ericP: there were specific firewall rules to avoid getting beaten by requests to namespaces
14:49:36 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: this one adds privacy considerations to authn suites
14:49:49 <elf-pavlik> ... now they have empty sections with todo and tracking issue
14:50:01 <elf-pavlik> ... this pr resolves that pending todo
14:50:07 <elf-pavlik> ... please take a look at and review
14:50:30 <elf-pavlik> ericP: i see 4 files that were edited
14:50:40 <elf-pavlik> ...: where do they differ
14:50:45 <pchampin> q+
14:51:00 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: at high level they mention that tokens contain PII
14:51:09 <elf-pavlik> ... implementation should minimise disclosure
14:51:11 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:51:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:51:20 <TallTed> q+ to ask about pr-preview or similar
14:51:33 <elf-pavlik> ... in openid we have JWT, saml has XML etc. so they differ slightly
14:51:45 <elf-pavlik> ... at high level they are very similar
14:51:58 <TallTed> q?
14:52:24 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: to respond to limitations of PR preview
14:52:31 <elf-pavlik> ... it only renders the protocol
14:52:39 <elf-pavlik> ... we can find workaround
14:53:00 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik: use githack please
14:53:14 <acoburn> +1 link in description and as a comment
14:53:15 <elf-pavlik> TallTed: please add comment with link and insert to the top comment
14:53:18 <ericP> ack next
14:53:27 <TallTed> q-
14:53:39 <elf-pavlik> pchampin: would this content make sense in the threat model
14:53:41 <elf-pavlik> q+
14:53:58 <elf-pavlik> ...: we can factorise everything rather than have duplicate
14:54:12 <elf-pavlik> ...: thosese sections can refer the threat model
14:54:52 <ericP> elf-pavlik: once we have merged the base threat model, we can go through all of the privacy/security/mitigations
14:54:58 <pchampin> perfect, thanks
14:55:08 <ericP> ... these should all cross-link
14:55:35 <elf-pavlik> acoburn: right now we publish authn suites as wg drafts, we don't publish the threat model yet
14:55:39 <elf-pavlik> +1
14:55:41 <pchampin> +1, I was not suggesting to *not* merge them, just keep this in mind for the future
14:55:45 <ryey> +1
14:56:04 <elf-pavlik> ericP: any closing remarks?
14:56:04 <pchampin> q+
14:56:11 <gibsonf1> +1
14:56:14 <elf-pavlik> q-
14:56:31 <pchampin> q-
14:56:48 <TallTed> [ adjourned ]
14:56:48 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:56:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/27-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:56:59 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
14:56:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
<pchampin> present+ jeswr