14:31:59 RRSAgent has joined #vcwg 14:32:04 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-vcwg-irc 14:32:04 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:32:05 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan 14:32:19 Meeting: Verifiable Credentials Working Group Telco 14:32:19 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b1a3e329-74d1-405d-ab47-2934b41c2ab4/20260722T110000/ 14:32:19 chair: brentz 14:32:19 ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2026-07-22: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b1a3e329-74d1-405d-ab47-2934b41c2ab4/20260722T110000/ 14:32:36 chair: phila 14:32:39 regrets: brentz 14:55:42 JoeAndrieu has joined #vcwg 14:56:51 present+ 14:57:44 hsano has joined #vcwg 14:59:34 phila has joined #vcwg 14:59:43 present+ 14:59:50 present+ TallTed 15:00:04 present+ manu 15:00:17 present+ 15:00:27 present+ kevin 15:00:40 KevinDean has joined #vcwg 15:00:43 present+ michaelshea 15:00:46 present+ 15:00:51 present+ 15:01:08 mlinck has joined #vcwg 15:01:14 michaelshea has joined #vcwg 15:01:22 q+ 15:01:26 scouten has joined #vcwg 15:01:27 Michiko has joined #vcwg 15:01:27 wes-smith has joined #vcwg 15:01:30 present+ 15:01:46 Scott has joined #vcwg 15:02:46 present+ 15:02:47 present+ Scott 15:03:32 present+ Eric_Scouten, Grace_Rachmany 15:03:55 scribe+ 15:04:01 present+ mlinck 15:04:16 present+ 15:04:31 brb 15:04:32 phila: We have three guests with us today, thankful for their time. Scott, Eric, and Grace, from CAWG. 15:05:06 phila: We're going to hear about C2PA as well. There are some issues we need to cover after that, Brent is at IETF. 15:05:20 phila: We will look at VCDM issues, and overview document, and open issue for group to look at. 15:05:36 phila: Do we have any new members of the group that haven't introduced themselves yet? 15:05:48 present+ saad 15:06:14 Saad: Hi Saad from Siemens AG, recently joined the group, our interest is in Digital Product Passport, should be able to contribute soon. 15:06:20 phila: Is this your first WG group? 15:06:42 Saad: I've participated in IETF, fairly used to participating in IETF. 15:06:45 JennieM has joined #vcwg 15:06:48 kezike has joined #vcwg 15:06:51 present+ 15:06:51 phila: Ok, please join IRC, queue there, welcome to the group! 15:07:07 Gracedao has joined #vcwg 15:07:15 phila: Anyone else on the call for the first time today? 15:07:48 Saad has joined #vcwg 15:07:49 Koriyama-san: Michiko Koriyama from Keio, working with Shigeya-san. 15:08:07 bigbluehat has joined #vcwg 15:08:22 phila: We will get to usual meeting work, but we have a presentation today from our guests. 15:08:31 Topic: CAWG and C2PA 15:09:00 present+ 15:09:47 Scott: Thank you for the opportunity to present, today we're going to talk a bit about C2PA and CAWG ecosystem... building identity into the content provenance ecosystem. We will have an ask about coordination about advancing VCs in this marketplace. 15:10:21 Scott: My nameis Scott Perry, play multiple roles -- VCs and provenance, Co-Chair of steering committee of Trust over IP, co-chair of creator assertions WG, and I have colleagues Grace and Eric with me today. 15:11:00 Gracedao: I'm Grace, Executive Director of DIF, mostly a figurehead, I go around to places like IETF where I am today. I love content, and that's why the Creator Assertions Working Group is great! 15:11:05 present+ 15:11:54 Scott: The CAWG started out in C2PA and there was a motion to note individual attribution in C2PA spec, they moved it over to DIF with Adobe's support as well as ToIP that houses the CAWG, Grace has helped us make sure that effort got under way at DIF. 15:12:36 Scouten: Hi Eric Scouten, I lead team at Adobe that builds open source and internal implementations of C2PA and CAWG ecosystem, I also co-chair Creator Assertions WG. 15:13:00 scouten: Who are we and how does all this fit together? Why are we here and what are we hoping to accomplish with W3C WGs. 15:13:31 scouten: We want to enable content creators to attach tamper evident digital nutrition label to the content they produce, how did they create the work, did they use AI tools, who am I, what do I want you to know about the context of the digital media? 15:14:04 scouten: We use various cryptographic techniques to determine whether or not the material is original or has been modified... what do hardware and software tool vendors say about content, and what do individuals say about it? 15:14:34 scouten: There are three Cs that work togheter: C2PA (What and how), CAWS (Who), and Advocacy and Education. 15:15:13 scouten: CAWG defines things that people and orgs to say about content -- how can you use digital credentials to express things about digital content. 15:15:35 scouten: contentauthenticity.org is a bunch of companies that feel like content provenance is important for society. 15:16:55 scouten: How does this translate to tech used -- taking accountability. Hardware/software tools are the "C2PA claim generator". Individual or organization involved in creating the content is the CAWG named actor (mostly aligns w/ credential community's use of credentialSubject) -- who was operating the camera/microphone? 15:17:54 scouten: C2PA deals w/ GPS data, edit actions taken, AI used, CAWG -- uses x509 cert / COSE signature, conformance program Scott alluding to, certificates used have specific purpose (not TLS certs, not S/MIME, specific to C2PA and vendor's agreement). 15:19:08 scouten: In CAWG, credentials that describe people/orgs is much more complex/flexible -- can use multiple types of credentials to attest to work, we do have an x509 system, but instead temporary backed by S/MIME governance program, will probably build our own. Specific grammar of W3C VCs, has platform vendor roll up a sequence of social media signals (Instagram, website, etc. verify those and put them in specific type of VC). 15:19:45 scouten: Projects we have in place, make VC integration much more generic, not tied to platform vendor, can bring credential from different markets, also working with GLEIF to bring in VLEIs to attest to organizational identity. 15:20:07 scouten: Good jumping off point for VCWG discussion, set context with Scott 15:20:32 present+ parth 15:20:53 present+ dmitriz 15:21:02 Scott: As Eric alluded to, we launched C2PA conformance program over a year ago, viral adoption, Google is all in, bringing all of their products to C2PA, creating canvases of many groups of digital objects that will be available in marketplace for attribution to be attached to. Seeing in CAWG, rapid adoption by major industires, that want attribution of digital photos in marketplace, and entire creator community in film, music, where money flows based on attribution. 15:21:24 present+ kezike 15:21:31 Gracedao, scouten, Scott (and others) -- You may also be interested in the W3C Credible Web Community Group, https://www.w3.org/community/credibility/ 15:22:06 Scott: Looking at viral acceptance for more verifiable credentials in aggregate than any other use case in market today -- we want every digital object created having a verifiable credential that VCs can be placed on top of it for attribution. In C2PA conformance ecosystem, it's working well, we have governance, platform canvas... real conversation w/ W3C is around attribution. 15:22:06 TallTed thank you … taking a note to dig deeper on that group's work. 15:23:30 Scott: C2PA is dealing w/ orgs, we are expanding world where individuals want to make claims, and with advance w/ VCs in markets, expand acceptance of VCs to directly within CAWG spec, use that as attribution as another opportunity for different industries to make a claim against digital object, consent, identification, facilitation of metadata, attached to digital object, creating hooks for trust registries and extended registries to allow that. 15:24:04 Scott: Use tech we are building to build fair use and disclosive information about the use of AI. 15:24:49 Scott: We started up VC Task Force and didn't have the number of people that are in this meeting today -- we want to partner with W3C to advance VC options to be used with digital objects, want to get involved in CAWG and bring VCWG to table, largest use case that I'm familiar with in VCs. 15:25:44 ack manu 15:25:45 scribe+ 15:25:45 scribe- 15:26:01 manu: this is a fantastic initiative. Scott, Eric, Grace, wonderful to see you again 15:26:10 ... this group should do everything we can to support the work you're doing 15:27:32 ... let's work with CAWG and C2PA to make sure they find success using this tech 15:27:40 q+ 15:27:43 ... either create a new Task Force to work on this, or to cycle steal from the main call 15:27:51 ... but this is really an important initiative 15:28:00 ... as Scott mentioned, and Eric has been letting us know for years 15:28:14 Scott: thanks manu. and yes, we're very interested in organizations to participate in this 15:28:22 q+ 15:28:30 ... we need lots of orgs that are trying to figure out how to do all this 15:28:38 ack bigbluehat 15:28:41 ... especially ones already issuing VCs for identity 15:28:56 bigbluehat: just to continue -- thanks for coming, and for presenting on this. I've been a fan from the sidelines 15:29:19 ... I want to ask about practicalities. I know a TF would be amazing. do you have some technical targets or issues, re what you feel is the main interface points could be? 15:29:39 Eric: I think there are two pieces we're in flight on, and would benefit from guidance 15:30:01 ... one is - we have a draft proposal for how a VC can be correctly bound to a specific piece of content. a review of that work on the W3C side would be greatly helpful 15:30:15 ... Scott and I can work with you to work out an individual session, or have you join one of our wg sessions 15:30:36 q+ 15:30:42 ... the other one is -- how do we establish a marketplace of trust? It's easy for someone to self-issue a VC, but how do you know that you should trust VCs from CA DMV, etc 15:31:07 ... understanding that, and providing roots of trust that make the CAWG credential marketplace interoperable is the biggest challenge we face 15:31:27 ack KevinDean 15:31:32 ... a lot of the usecases for VCs so far have been closed ecosystems, but now we're stretching the boundaries 15:31:32 ... where consumers are unknown at the time of publication, at a larger scale 15:31:57 KevinDean: hi, Kevin with Legendary Requirements, working on supply side standards for a while 15:32:16 ... when I was at GS1 we ran across this from time to time, with content creators who were licensing their characters for merchandise for example 15:32:44 ... and the challenge as always is to ensure that a retailer who is selling what appears to be licensed content is sourcing it legitimately 15:32:58 Eric: yes, that's the usecase, with some wrinkles. the data formats we use from C2PA are immutable 15:33:09 ... and the legal agreements that establish the rights to use characters etc, are mutable 15:33:16 q+ 15:33:25 MacTed has joined #vcwg 15:33:32 ... legal agreements change, ownership rights, and so on, change after media is published 15:33:41 ... so if walmart comes across a representation of a character 5 years from now, how do they find out what changed in the 5 years 15:33:49 Scott: we're looking at 2 distinct governance models 15:34:00 ... one is a specific industry controlling specific metadata. 15:34:22 ... the thing we want to solve is -- if an individual is claiming an identity, how do we know who they are. and what's the governance model to give us confidence in it 15:34:44 ... there's some aspects in 509 that allow for some of this. I want to see a governance model at scale for VCs too 15:34:47 ack bigbluehat 15:34:49 ... maybe at the W3C level 15:35:04 https://w3c.github.io/vc-recognized-entities/ 15:35:09 bigbluehat: Ivan mentioned it already in chat, but I wanted to share about the VC Recognized Entities spec 15:35:32 ... which covers exactly the use case you were talking about 15:35:32 ... handles self-signed content by a content creator 15:35:53 ... like the Patreon artist space 15:36:03 present+ carolynn 15:36:17 ... where currently the artist doesnt have a lot of tools to back up their claims 15:36:36 ... so, recognized entities could play towards promoting a way individuals and orgs can support each other's claims 15:36:40 present+ hsano 15:36:44 bigbluehat thanks – taking a note to read up on RE spec 15:36:44 ack me 15:37:06 Phila: thanks Benjamin, i'm delighted this conversation has taken off 15:37:31 ... what I did was completely and utterly abuse the system, and Steve Cappell has done the same 15:37:51 ... so what Steve and I have both done, is to crowbar our usecases directly into the VC Recognized Entity standard. so, those usecases are really well covered! 15:38:13 ... thing like -- a product claims it's organic, is it? and country of origin? etc 15:38:20 TallTed has joined #vcwg 15:38:31 ... resting on a trust anchor at the base. so, the VC Recognized Entity might be of direct use to you 15:38:46 ... wearing my W3C co-chair hat for a moment, 15:38:58 ... there's some great opportunities here, and of course some challenges 15:39:32 ... noone, including you and all of us, has any time to do any more than we're already doing. hopefully we'll find time 15:39:36 ... secondly, like DIF, TOIP we have IP rules 15:39:41 ... about contributions and so on. 15:40:00 ... what we'd need to do is to take this positivity and turn it into concrete action steps 15:40:16 ... a conversation involving Grace, and Ivan (team contact representing W3C here), about how we make this happen 15:40:26 ... in terms of formal agreement / working together 15:40:38 ... anyone else in the group has questions? 15:40:40 q+ 15:40:49 Scott: please provide our email addresses 15:40:58 When you transition to other topics, I'll jump off. Thank you for the opportunity to talk with your group! :-) 15:41:02 pdl_asu has joined #vcwg 15:41:02 Grace: just to add, we already have some joint WGs with W3C, so the lawyer part might be easier 15:41:11 present+ 15:41:32 Eric: as Grace said, and others, we run under W3C IPR, so, should work 15:41:34 ... and welcome anyone as individual members or org collaboration 15:42:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed 15:42:13 phila: as GS1, I'm co-organizing a workshop with W3C (giving me so much schitzophrenia) 15:42:21 ... some of the people taking part in that are about Know Your Agent / KY Customer / KY Supplier 15:42:27 ... very similar to what you were talking about, Eric 15:42:44 ... not just attaching identity to software, but what its authorization is 15:42:56 Grace: we do have a working group specifically on this, the TAWG wg - Trusted AI WG 15:43:04 ... and they have a KYA-OS spec 15:43:19 Scott: I am going to be at the GDC week in geneva, and the week before 15:43:32 ... hopefully we can have conversatins about it 15:43:32 phila: I'll be there 15:44:01 dmitriz: can you post a link to CAWG meetings? 15:44:19 phila: eric - is there a stable URL for the slides? 15:44:26 Eric: will send the slides 15:44:40 phila: ok, for the group, lets go through some of the regular stuff 15:44:44 ... couple of things on the agenda 15:44:57 Topic: VCDM 2.1 15:45:07 ... I know manu isn't here, but Kevin -- 15:45:22 https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues 15:45:31 ... you very kindly put your hand up to help with this 15:45:57 ... what manu said briefly before the call was -- these issues have been triaged, and several are looking for PRs. Kevin, would you be willing/able to take a stab at working on those? 15:46:06 KevinDean: ok I will take a look 15:46:24 phila: this is one of the documents that we as the full WG need to take care of 15:46:40 ... we need to keep our eye on it as the main group (vs task forces 15:46:53 ... next step is to prep it for horizontal review 15:47:07 ... so the first thing is to start on it, start correcting the errors, postpone things for the future 15:47:12 ... so, thank you, Kevin 15:47:24 Topic: Overview doc, rename to 1.0 and start draft of 1.1 15:47:31 ... anyone else have comments about VC DM 2.1? 15:47:31 ... if not, the next topic.. 15:47:31 ... Ivan, this is on your doorstep 15:47:38 https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-overview/ 15:47:41 s/on attribution./... on attribution. 15:47:49 ivan: for those who were not around in the first round of the WG, I added an overview doc in the old days of 1.0 15:48:05 ... and is decently used (for example, at W3C), when communicating with other institutions 15:48:14 ... so I really think it's an important doc (not just cause I added it) 15:48:29 https://iherman.github.io/vc-overview-1.1/ 15:48:31 ... incorporating the input from all the task forces is a large amount of work 15:48:45 ... I took a first pass at it 15:48:56 ... question is: how do we move forward to officialize the changes? 15:49:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed 15:49:18 ... we made a mistake back in the day not to give a version to the overview. so any change I'd do in the current doc would be reflected on the overview 15:49:31 ... and that wouldn't be good, since there are major changes since 1.1 15:49:46 ... so, would be ideal to cut a stable version to the public, so we can have a working version we can continue editing as the WG works 15:49:55 - re-publish the current one titled VC Overview 1.0, with short name vc-overview-1.0 15:49:56 - vc-overview will redirect to vc-overview-1.0 15:49:56 - officially publish VC Overview 1.1 as a Draft Note, with short name vc-overview-1.1 (essentially through a PR to the content above) 15:49:56 - At some point in the future it will become a Note and vc-overview will redirect to vc-overview-1.1 15:50:02 ... I have put together a set of steps I think should be done ^ 15:51:08 Jem_ has joined #vcwg 15:51:12 ... (ivan goes over the steps above) 15:53:06 phila: any comment on this? 15:53:31 ivan: i need a lot of review for the 1.1 version 15:53:38 ... lots of details there around SD, various methods and classes and so on 15:53:56 ... I tried to review all the new docs from the task forces, but there's still a bit of hand-waving, that needs review and help 15:54:09 ... the other thing, to avoid any kind of misunderstanding -- there's an Editor, and a list of Authors 15:54:24 ... which at the moment is a concat of all the editors that have published before 15:54:42 phila: ok, I have forked your repo, I currently have 4 PRs and 2 issues 15:54:44 ivan: good 15:54:53 phila: yes, it's an important document 15:55:01 ... an essential guide 15:55:03 Proposed Resolution: We re-publish the existing Overview document unchanged but renamed version 1.0 (/TR/vc-overview-1.0). We will then adopt Ivan's draft as a FPWD of version 1.1 (/TR/vc-overview-1.1) 15:55:10 +1 15:55:11 +1 15:55:13 +1 15:55:16 +1 15:55:16 +1 15:55:18 +1 15:55:18 +1 15:55:19 +1 15:55:21 +1 15:55:21 +1 15:55:26 +1 15:55:28 Resolution: We re-publish the existing Overview document unchanged but renamed version 1.0 (/TR/vc-overview-1.0). We will then adopt Ivan's draft as a FPWD of version 1.1 (/TR/vc-overview-1.1) 15:55:34 phila: so resolved. 15:55:51 phila: we'll look at issue 12 next time 15:55:57 ... anyone have any other comments before we close? 15:56:08 ... thanks all! 15:56:41 ... next week, I'll chair again (Brent is away) 15:56:49 ... I'll be issuing agenda for next week tomorrow though 15:57:31 ... for the new members of the group -- do please take a look at the Task Forces 15:58:01 thanks phil! 15:58:01 ... thanks again all, talk to you all later 15:58:05 rrsagent, draft meeting 15:58:05 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft meeting', ivan. Try /msg RRSAgent help 16:00:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:00:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-vcwg-minutes.html ivan 16:00:52 rrsagent, bye 16:00:52 I see no action items