14:47:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #maturity
14:47:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-maturity-irc
14:47:59 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:48:00 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Fazio
14:48:28 <Fazio> meeting: Maturity Model Task Force
14:48:40 <Fazio> chair: David Fazio
14:50:56 <Mark_Miller> Mark_Miller has joined #Maturity
14:51:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ New Business
14:51:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ Update from Mark and Jeff
14:51:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ Github Issue #348 Oversight missing
14:51:06 <Fazio> Agenda+ Github Issue #341 Missing governance/policy
14:51:21 <Fazio> present+
14:51:37 <Mark_Miller> present+
14:59:23 <JeffAdams-UN> JeffAdams-UN has joined #maturity
15:00:57 <Neha> Neha has joined #maturity
15:01:45 <Neha> present+
15:01:45 <janina1> janina1 has joined #maturity
15:01:53 <jkline> jkline has joined #maturity
15:01:57 <JeffAdams-UN> present+
15:02:02 <jkline> present+
15:02:16 <JeffAdams-UN> scribe+
15:02:51 <JXZ> JXZ has joined #maturity
15:02:55 <JXZ> present+
15:03:12 <jkline> q+
15:03:50 <JeffAdams-UN> ack jkline
15:06:13 <JXZ> q+
15:06:40 <JeffAdams-UN> zakim, next item
15:06:40 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- New Business -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:08:12 <janina1> present+
15:08:41 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio Janina and David were at ICCHP and they updated on the maturity model there. Lots of interest, and a full room of about 20, and well received. Afterwards approached by the gentleman who created the WCAG EM database tool. It similar to what we have in mind to create for AMM. This person volunteered to  build it for us.
15:10:12 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: People like it's customizable and flexible and open-ended. But also heard the inverse too and people who want requirements and spec-type based.
15:11:54 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: There's a believe we can't have both kinds of document (normative and one not). But not sure if that's the case.
15:13:00 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Also good presentation from one of Zimmerman's students on bundling portions of the maturty model. They will come to an AMM meeting and make that presentation to us so we can learn more.
15:14:03 <JeffAdams-UN> ack JXZ
15:14:40 <jkline> jkline has joined #maturity
15:14:52 <JeffAdams-UN> JXZ: Is doing a cognitive deep read through of the document
15:15:19 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: May need to hold this until we do a re-write of the Abstract and About
15:15:57 <JeffAdams-UN> Mark_Miller: Highlighting that we're working through Abstract and About, but rest of document can be reviewed.
15:17:25 <JeffAdams-UN> jkline: Has gone in and looked at proof points to see how they related to sustainability, which is around sustaining accessibility programs or applications. Came to conclusion that almost all the proof points relate to that. Maturity is somewhat of an analogy for sustainability.
15:17:32 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Agrees
15:18:15 <JeffAdams-UN> janina1: Since Sheri attended that meeting, might be better to table this until Sheri is here to discuss since she attended that meeting.
15:19:44 <JeffAdams-UN> zakim, next item
15:19:44 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Update from Mark and Jeff -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:21:55 <JeffAdams-UN> Mark_Miller: Jeff and Mark have been working with Claude to look at how the sections should be written and what needed to be added/removed based on the definitions and from there rewrite the sections based on that. The rewrites are being reviewed by us and looking to feel confident about what we're sending back over.
15:24:17 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Will send information on how we can submit breakout session to TPAC on how we're using AI
15:24:32 <JeffAdams-UN> zakim, next item
15:24:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Github Issue #348 Oversight missing -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:25:21 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Caught up on changes and merges. There are still some issues with Oversight that need to be looked at.
15:25:49 <JeffAdams-UN> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/348
15:25:50 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/348 -> Issue 348 Oversight missing (by iadawn)
15:26:21 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: We have comments 1 through 15 noted so that we can track the issues.
15:27:00 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Starting with #8, which is "Why do we have disability inclusion leadership in oversight and governance? This doesn't belong"
15:27:28 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: This seems to be lingering from the "culture" version that we had. Okay with just deleting it.
15:28:14 <JeffAdams-UN> JeffAdams-UN: Agree that it should be deleted based on previous work.
15:28:45 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Still quite a few places that it's in the text of the section.
15:32:56 <JeffAdams-UN> jkline: could also change out a word for "cultural" as well
15:35:28 <JeffAdams-UN> @jkline: are we getting overly sensitive to the word "cultural" since we're trying to weave accessibility into the org.
15:35:28 <gb> https://github.com/jkline -> @jkline
15:36:09 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Culture is more soft. Governance is more a way of managing and operating
15:37:14 <JeffAdams-UN> janina1: We can look for synonyms, maybe like ethos. We need to be able to s show the whole organizations needs to  buy in.
15:39:20 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: "Culture" could belong in Abstract or Introduction perhaps. But it shouldn't be inside governance.
15:39:58 <JXZ> quit
15:40:08 <JXZ> JXZ has left #maturity
15:40:36 <JeffAdams-UN> janina1: Let's put a pin in this so we don't lose the importance of what "culture" says as we're doing revisions.
15:41:26 <JeffAdams-UN> jkline: What about "accessibility related social programs"?
15:42:00 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: All this can go into a github issue with the details around this.
15:46:09 <JeffAdams-UN> Mark_Miller: Agrees with jkline that "governance and oversight" can be removed ahead of programs to help remove the repeat of those words.
15:48:48 <JeffAdams-UN> Mark_Miller: Accessibility programs have been developed.
15:49:14 <JeffAdams-UN> janina1: Accessibility awareness programs
15:52:59 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Culture aspects are sitting inside the optimize level "strong organizational awareness, appreciation, and support for all aspects of ICT accessibility and people with disabilities."
15:53:19 <JeffAdams-UN> Mark_Miller: How do we tack that everyone understands?
15:53:48 <JeffAdams-UN> Mark_Miller: Could just be statement that everyone has been informed of their resposnibility
15:55:10 <JeffAdams-UN> jkline: Items that going into the personnel measurement with performance plans and measurements
15:56:02 <JeffAdams-UN> Fazio: Employees are informed of the importance of ICT accessibility and how it fits within their roles and responsibilities.
15:57:07 <JeffAdams-UN> zakim, end meeting
15:57:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Fazio, Mark_Miller, Neha, JeffAdams-UN, jkline, JXZ, janina
15:57:09 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:57:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-maturity-minutes.html Zakim
15:57:18 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, JeffAdams-UN; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:57:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #maturity
19:31:06 <gb> gb has joined #maturity