12:57:14 RRSAgent has joined #matf 12:57:19 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-matf-irc 12:57:19 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:57:20 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), JJ 12:58:28 Zakim, this is MATF 22 July 2026 12:58:28 got it, JJ 12:58:32 Meeting: MATF 22 July 2026 12:58:38 chair+ 12:58:46 shoobe01 has joined #matf 12:58:56 agenda+ Definitions drafts - Diagram 12:59:01 agenda+ Definitions drafts - Set of web pages 12:59:03 present+ 12:59:06 agenda+ Definitions drafts - Keyboard interface 12:59:10 agenda+ Definitions drafts - User agent 12:59:15 agenda+ Definitions drafts - Software 12:59:19 agenda+ Definitions drafts - Platform software 12:59:23 agenda+ Definitions drafts - Mobile operating system 12:59:28 agenda+ Success Criterion 2.5.3 Label in Name 12:59:33 agenda+ Success Criterion 2.5.7 Dragging Movements 12:59:42 agenda+ Success Criterion 3.2.2 On Input 12:59:47 agenda+ Success Criterion 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) 12:59:53 zakim, agenda? 12:59:53 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda: 12:59:54 1. Definitions drafts - Diagram [from JJ] 12:59:54 2. Definitions drafts - Set of web pages [from JJ] 12:59:54 3. Definitions drafts - Keyboard interface [from JJ] 12:59:54 4. Definitions drafts - User agent [from JJ] 12:59:54 5. Definitions drafts - Software [from JJ] 12:59:55 6. Definitions drafts - Platform software [from JJ] 12:59:55 7. Definitions drafts - Mobile operating system [from JJ] 12:59:55 8. Success Criterion 2.5.3 Label in Name [from JJ] 12:59:55 9. Success Criterion 2.5.7 Dragging Movements [from JJ] 12:59:55 10. Success Criterion 3.2.2 On Input [from JJ] 12:59:55 11. Success Criterion 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) [from JJ] 13:01:31 Tanya has joined #matf 13:02:41 present+ 13:04:46 RobW has joined #matf 13:04:56 present+ 13:08:09 github-bot has joined #matf 13:08:31 Zakim nominate a scribe 13:08:42 Zakim, nominate a scribe 13:08:42 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose RobW 13:09:11 move to next agendum 13:09:11 agendum 1 -- Definitions drafts - Diagram -- taken up [from JJ] 13:09:53 https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/223 13:10:44 Correction: https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/293 13:16:37 scribe: RobW 13:16:57 Current proposal looked like this: 13:16:58 The software layers involved in mobile apps are shown in Figure 1. The lowest layer is the “underlying layer”, consisting of the device hardware. The platform software⁠ operates on the underlying layer and provides services used by software⁠ running on the device, including the accessibility interface. Software includes native apps, 13:16:58 cross-platform apps, apps containing embedded web views, and separate user agents such as mobile web browsers. Software presents content and exposes semantic information through the accessibility interface, which assistive technologies use to obtain that information and perform user actions. Users interact with content either directly or through 13:16:58 assistive technologies. 13:17:07 Accessibility responsibilities correspond to these software layers. Authors are responsible for the accessibility of the content and software they provide, including native apps, cross-platform apps, and apps containing embedded web views. Platform vendors are responsible for accessibility functionality provided by the platform software, including 13:17:07 accessibility services and unmodified platform software components. User agent vendors are responsible for functionality provided by separate user agents, such as mobile web browsers. Assistive technology vendors are responsible for the accessibility of assistive technologies. 13:17:23 Description for screen readers: 13:17:24 A top-to-bottom stack of six layers involved when a person interacts with an application. Each layer contains one or more blocks, and every block is coloured to show who is responsible for it: author, vendor, assistive technology vendor, or out of scope. Arrows between the layers show that information flows both up and down the stack. 13:17:24 From top to bottom: 13:17:24 1. User 13:17:24 Person 13:17:25 Out of scope. 13:17:25 2. Assistive technology 13:17:25 Assistive software 13:17:26 Assistive technology vendor. 13:17:26 Assistive hardware 13:17:26 Assistive technology vendor. 13:17:27 3. Content 13:17:27 Structure 13:17:27 Author. 13:17:28 Presentation 13:17:28 Author. 13:17:28 Interaction 13:17:29 Author. 13:17:29 4. Software (“the app”) or User Agent 13:17:29 Native program 13:17:30 Author. 13:17:30 Cross-platform program 13:17:30 Author. 13:17:31 Embedded web view 13:17:31 Author. 13:17:31 Browser 13:17:32 Vendor. 13:17:32 The embedded web view and browser together form the User Agent. 13:17:32 5. Platform software 13:17:33 Operating system 13:17:33 Vendor. 13:17:33 6. “Underlying layer” 13:17:34 Device 13:17:34 Out of scope. 13:17:43 move to next agendum 13:17:43 agendum 2 -- Definitions drafts - Set of web pages -- taken up [from JJ] 13:17:48 Joe_Humbert has joined #matf 13:17:56 present+ 13:19:22 Typo, seems to be missing a word "The set of pages used in the checkout process IS distinct from the set of pages used to show products." 13:21:37 Added typo comment: https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/293/changes#r3630544510 13:21:41 move to next agendum 13:21:41 agendum 3 -- Definitions drafts - Keyboard interface -- taken up [from JJ] 13:24:42 JJ: Keyboard interface note 3 acknowledges an accessibility interface exists but provides no specific guidance to avoid deviating too much from WCAG 13:26:29 Tanya: Adding this as a note avoids adding a separate definition 13:27:39 move to next agendum 13:27:39 agendum 4 -- Definitions drafts - User agent -- taken up [from JJ] 13:30:28 q+ 13:31:22 ack shoobe 13:31:26 q+ 13:31:37 JJ: User agent is an important definition because it includes some exclusions. 13:31:37 Note 2 clarifies that if making a web app the author is responsible for the accessibility of the content. 13:32:19 ack Joe_Humbert 13:33:20 shoobe: "Everything else... are covered by the term “software”." Is circular as software is also responsible for presenting the web content. 13:33:51 q+ 13:35:02 Joe_Humbert: Android has options for rendering web content, each of these is a user agent. 13:35:06 ack Tanya 13:35:55 Related issue: https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/63 13:36:54 Tanya: as author of the app it should be your responsibility to ensure that the web content is accessible, not to put responsibility on the web view vendor. This means a web view is not the same as software, but should be treated as software. 13:37:50 q+ 13:38:01 Joe_Humbert: If we consider a browser a user agent, user agents are exempt in some cases. We should be careful about using that definition. 13:38:40 q- 13:39:08 q? 13:39:13 move to next agendum 13:39:13 agendum 5 -- Definitions drafts - Software -- taken up [from JJ] 13:40:43 q+ 13:40:52 ack shoobe 13:41:46 I think the second note in Software makes our second note in User Agent clear so I am good to move forward. Thank you for your work Tanya 13:42:36 q+ 13:43:08 q+ 13:43:19 shoobe: Replace 'Software ("the app") or User Agent' with singular term 13:43:34 shoobe01: Category naming problem, the same as the diagram & user agent - software is used to reference many things. We should consider replacing the word software with something else in this context. 13:43:46 q? 13:43:49 ack Joe_Humbert 13:44:37 Joe_Humbert: Is software just native & cross platform programs, similar to how browsers & embedded web views are user agents? 13:45:51 Joe_Humbert: We should keep the software layer, but group native & cross platform programs as "application software" 13:47:03 https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/270#issuecomment-4778780113 13:47:19 ^ link is mapping of terminology 13:48:12 move to next agendum 13:48:12 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JJ 13:48:17 q? 13:49:31 Tanya: Provided a table matching WCAG2ICT & WCAG terms to WCAG2Mobile - we should aim not to add new definitions. 13:50:34 Tanya: One version of the diagram had a separate layer for user agent, but this was removed because it added complexity. You need to have an app installed to access the embedded browser. 13:51:37 move to next agendum 13:51:37 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JJ 13:51:40 ack Tanya 13:51:42 move to next agendum 13:51:42 agendum 6 -- Definitions drafts - Platform software -- taken up [from JJ] 13:53:05 q+ 13:53:24 ack Joe_Humbert 13:54:20 Joe_Humbert: Components being considered software strengthens the case for disambiguating the term software and adding an additional term. 13:54:49 q+ 13:54:51 q+ 13:54:54 ack Tanya 13:56:40 Tanya: Agree with Joe, we should group native & cross platform as application software. We have cross platform definition on our backlog, but it doesn't fit in with these definitions. We should add it in a future version. 13:57:40 q? 13:57:43 ack RobW 13:59:47 +1 for Rob's commentary through today on this 14:01:46 JJ Browser is a User Agent by definition in WCAG, unfortunately 14:03:59 Zakim, list participants 14:03:59 As of this point the attendees have been shoobe, Tanya, RobW, Joe_Humbert 14:04:10 rrsagent, make minutes 14:04:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:04:30 regrets+ quintinb 14:04:31 rrsagent, make minutes 14:04:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-matf-minutes.html JJ 14:17:00 rrsagent, bye 14:17:00 I see no action items