15:00:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #vcwg
15:00:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-irc
15:00:51 <brent> zakim, start the meeting
15:00:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:00:53 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), brent
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15:01:15 <brent> meeting: Verifiable Credentials WG Weekly teleconference
15:01:28 <brent> chair: Brent
15:02:03 <hsano> hsano has joined #vcwg
15:02:05 <pdl-ASU> pdl-ASU has joined #vcwg
15:02:06 <hsano> present+
15:02:11 <JoeAndrieu57> JoeAndrieu57 has joined #vcwg
15:02:11 <pdl-ASU> present+
15:02:22 <dlongley> present+
15:02:25 <JoeAndrieu57> present+
15:02:30 <phila> phila has joined #vcwg
15:03:45 <michaelshea> present+
15:03:49 <phila> present+
15:04:10 <wes-smith> wes-smith has joined #vcwg
15:04:17 <wes-smith> present+
15:04:37 <exe> exe has joined #vcwg
15:04:44 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b1a3e329-74d1-405d-ab47-2934b41c2ab4/20260715T110000/
15:04:47 <phila> chair: Brent
15:05:10 <phila> scribe+
15:05:21 <phila> brent: Welcomes everyone
15:05:41 <JennieM> JennieM has joined #vcwg
15:05:54 <phila> brent: Any introductions?
15:06:14 <phila> mikeLinck: Says hello. From Google, working on DPP and more
15:06:34 <TallTed> present+
15:06:48 <phila> brent: Talks about the reason for the weekly all-group meeting
15:06:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
15:07:33 <wes-smith> wes-smith has joined #vcwg
15:07:47 <JennieM> present+
15:08:10 <phila> brent: Goes through agenda
15:08:20 <phila> ... with a focused render method session
15:08:24 <mlinck> mlinck has joined #vcwg
15:08:38 <phila> ... notes that michaelshea has asked to look at classes of changes cf. the charter
15:08:44 <phila> present mlinck
15:08:55 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/08-vcwg-minutes.html
15:08:55 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/07/22-vcwg-minutes.html
15:08:56 <phila> s/present mlinck/present+ mlinck
15:08:58 <brent> present+
15:09:02 <mlinck> present+
15:09:03 <exe> present+
15:09:13 <phila> Topic: Task Force Updates
15:09:21 <wes-smith> q+
15:09:27 <phila> brent: Please let us know how things are going in your TF
15:09:28 <brent> ack wes-smith
15:09:35 <Elaine> Elaine has joined #vcwg
15:09:42 <phila> wes-smith: barcodes and DI TF - now has hte forgery defence work under its umbrella
15:09:47 <kezike> kezike has joined #vcwg
15:09:51 <phila> ... things progressing smoothly for now
15:09:52 <kezike> present+
15:09:58 <JoeAndrieu57> Nothing to report from Confidence Method
15:10:12 <phila> brent: To all TF leads. We're starting a trend on the all-group call to focus on a specific TF each week
15:10:12 <Elaine> Present+
15:10:14 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:10:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
15:10:22 <JoeAndrieu57> q+
15:10:23 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:10:31 <kezike> +1 JoeAndrieu57
15:10:34 <phila> JoeAndrieu57: Please check with the TF leads before scheduling!
15:10:38 <TallTed> present+ mlinck
15:10:38 <phila> brent: Noted
15:10:47 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:11:03 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:11:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-minutes.html phila
15:11:10 <kezike> q+
15:11:13 <phila> brent: Anyone from other TFs?
15:11:18 <brent> ack kezike
15:11:41 <phila> kezike: We've been speed-running through issues. Some still need to be resolved. But we're making progress
15:12:05 <phila> brent: If you have major issues, it's entirely appropriate to bring those to the Wednesday meetings
15:12:08 <phila> Topic: Process
15:12:14 <brent> https://www.w3.org/policies/process/#correction-classes
15:12:33 <phila> brent: Links to the classes of changes. 4 of the 5 apply to the docs we're working with
15:12:47 <phila> ... the first is stylesheet/white space changes. No change to text
15:13:05 <phila> ... class 2 is editorial changes. No effect on the function of the doc. Correcting examples etc.
15:13:29 <phila> ... If there's any doubt that a change is class 2, then it becomes class 3.
15:13:44 <phila> ... Class 3 doesn't add a new feature but does make a substantial change.
15:14:03 <phila> ... Class 4 is new features. No class 4 changes are in scope for docs we're maintaining.
15:14:19 <phila> ... Our charter lists the ones we're maintaining
15:14:33 <phila> .... in the new work we're doing, anything goes.
15:14:42 <kezike> Re VCALM update: We have also merged our first version of the threat model since the last call. We will be iterating on it shortly and regularly.
15:14:55 <phila> ... Class 3 changes may be OK in response to bugs or errata, but in general, no, we can't do those in maintenance mode
15:15:14 <phila> brent: We're going from a 1.0 to a 1.1
15:15:38 <phila> michaelshea: Thanks. If any change is required because of task force that is using CID, is that class 3?
15:15:48 <phila> michaelshea: How does that get classified?
15:15:55 <phila> brent: That's where things get fuzzy
15:16:33 <phila> ... We are chartered to maintain. If we're chartered to work on a new item that depends on a doc we're maintaining... the delineation between specs is not that clear cut.
15:16:41 <phila> ... We do have a good deal of leeway.
15:17:26 <phila> ... We'd need to have a full WG agreement to make a spec change to a maintenance doc and we'd have to discuss. We're both chartered and not chartered to do that.
15:17:38 <phila> Topic: render Method
15:17:38 <brent> Topic: Render Method
15:17:39 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #vcwg
15:18:27 <phila> brent: Is there anything render-method specific that would benefit from the WG's attention, great. If not, we'll look at them all
15:18:29 <TallTed> s/Topic: render Method//
15:18:43 <phila> dmitriz: Overall - there are 3 current PRs open, they're waiting on decisions.
15:18:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
15:19:07 <phila> ... We have a bunch of stuff that has consensus and some we're arguing about.
15:19:57 <phila> ... We have consensus. Time is limited of course. We have 3 categories of render method. 1) Static -at issue time, the issuer pre-bakes 1 or more rendered version. Can be a pre-rendered PDF, PNG etc.
15:20:03 <phila> ... We def need to cover that.
15:20:27 <phila> ... Category 2 is to do with data view/list view/item view.
15:20:47 <kezike> Re render method category naming: We now have this issue to track this: https://github.com/w3c/vc-render-method/issues/55
15:21:05 <phila> dmitriz: That's where the issuer says: if you're displaying these in a list, when it doesn't make sense to display the full list - here are the fields that are importantr for the cred.
15:21:34 <phila> dmitriz: The current example in the spec of a static render, is the NFC. The 2nd category, it's the JSON Card view
15:21:53 <phila> ... But the principle is the same; select a small set of fields. This one's emphasis, bold etc.
15:22:21 <phila> dmitriz: The 3rd type - there's some disagreement in the group - that's the HTML view. That's the full-on render method.
15:22:43 <phila> dmitriz: We know that there will be fields in common. Type, subject etc.
15:22:59 <phila> ... then we have specific details to think about.
15:23:30 <phila> dmitriz: For the HTML view, a full on JS/HMLT app sandboxed in an iframe. The other contender is a mustache HTML template
15:23:52 <phila> ... The HTML is provided and field values are substituted (with the {{...}} notation)
15:24:13 <phila> dmitriz: This is on contrast to the iframe snadbox which boots up a full HTML/JS app that handles everything
15:24:51 <phila> ... One of the points of contention is whether JS should be allowed. Sandboxed, but still. The other point is what to do for the print to PDF use case?
15:25:29 <phila> ... The HTML/JS app in an iframe sandbox proposes a mechanism for the app to put together a transformed payload via a iframe POST method to the client so it can be printed.
15:25:50 <kezike> Another point of contention is the fidelity (or lack thereof) of the mustache spec.
15:25:58 <phila> dmitriz: Approach 2 is the template approach. The consuming client can do some substituting
15:26:10 <exe> To throw an example for what dmitriz is talking about:
15:26:10 <exe> this showing an example of a rendered mustache template for an svg, which is essentially another version to sandbox html: https://ssi-gs1-verifier.prod-k8s.eecc.de/?input=https%3A%2F%2Fcompany-wallet-dev.prod-k8s.eecc.de%2Fapi%2Fregistry%2Fvc%2F0c2819e7-7ef3-44f7-9cb0-51c4da55433f (demo credential vie). the credential
15:26:10 <exe> https://company-wallet-dev.prod-k8s.eecc.de/api/registry/vc/license/gs1_key/01/04047111000006 has
15:26:10 <exe> {
15:26:12 <exe>       "template": {
15:26:12 <exe>         "id": "https://gs1.github.io/GS1DigitalLicenses/templates/gs1-sample-key-template.svg",
15:26:12 <exe>         "mediaType": "image/svg+xml"
15:26:13 <exe>       },
15:26:13 <exe>       "renderSuite": "svg-mustache",
15:26:13 <exe>       "name": "SVG for web display",
15:26:14 <exe>       "type": "TemplateRenderMethod"
15:26:14 <exe>     }
15:26:14 <exe> But if this is according to this groups standard is very much under discussion as far as I can say ;)
15:26:17 <phila> dmitriz: For the static methods, we need an NFC method. Can define a PNG or whatever
15:26:30 <phila> dmitriz: We only need one JSON Card example
15:27:12 <phila> dmitriz: Main disussion is in the HTML detailed view, which oif the 2 approaches to take. That takes us into the Threat Modelling discussion.
15:27:46 <phila> ... Other TFs are doing the same. We're hoping that the list of threats will allow us to point to the trade offs
15:27:53 <phila> dmitriz: That's the snapshot
15:27:54 <brent> q?
15:28:18 <phila> Subtopic Issues and PRs
15:28:29 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-render-method/pull/39
15:28:30 <phila> subtopic: Issue 39
15:28:41 <phila> dmitriz: That's the list view/item view in JSON Card
15:29:13 <phila> dmitriz: So this is the current PR that is going to collect all of the fields for the list view/JSON Card View
15:29:26 <brent> q+
15:29:27 <phila> ... Comments welcome. This one is less contentious.
15:29:33 <phila> dmitriz: The other two open PRs...
15:29:55 <dlongley> q+
15:29:57 <brent> ack brent
15:29:57 <phila> brent: The JSOn Card render method - if I open my wallet, I'll see a card-style presnetation.
15:30:08 <brent> ack dlongley
15:30:13 <phila> dmitriz: Yes, that's what we're trying to emulate, that constrained space
15:30:26 <phila> dlongley: The key feature is for the issuer to highlight the important fields
15:30:36 <phila> ... And then the client can style it as they see fit
15:31:21 <phila> dmitriz: What's the minimum no of things we need to display. That's about it
15:31:32 <phila> ... That's what most wallet approaches have reinvented
15:31:48 <phila> Subtopic: Other PRs
15:32:02 <phila> dmitriz: The other 2 PRs are waiting on the resolution of the HTML issue
15:32:16 <phila> ... Hoping to unify
15:32:21 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-render-method/pull/30
15:32:37 <phila> dmitriz: One PR 49 is waiting on the HTML discussion
15:32:54 <phila> dmitriz: Those are the main things that it makes sense to look at today.
15:33:28 <phila> brent: For those on the call who don't normally join the RM TF. If that sounds interesting, please feel free to join the TF. All are welcome to look at the issues and PRs of course.
15:33:38 <dmitriz> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mQg0pdPMfytkAIgsaApODbaKO--PJvr_E4ZM2HoQPzk/
15:33:42 <dmitriz> ^ threat model brainstorm
15:33:47 <phila> dmitriz: I want to post a link to our threat model brrainstorm - we need more eyes on that
15:34:01 <phila> brent: Any more comments on this topic?
15:34:08 <phila> Topic: VCDM 2.1
15:34:19 <phila> brent: This is the maintenance of our core data model
15:34:33 <phila> ... the first thing to look at, is PR 1629
15:34:38 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1629
15:35:18 <phila> brent: This deprecates DigestSRI as an option. Several approvals but some objection bc there is an implementation that uses it.
15:35:27 <phila> ... If you have not engaged on this and have a view, please do so.
15:35:28 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1628
15:35:49 <phila> Brent: In terms of spec maintenance, this is probably the major issue
15:36:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
15:36:26 <phila> brent: I believe neither Manu or Shigeya are on the call. They're the prime people for and against
15:36:30 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1634
15:36:46 <phila> brent: This one we're looking at because it's un-triaged. Terminology
15:37:24 <phila> ... Two processing modes are mentioned. We're not proposing a re-opening of that conversation. This is asking rather than framing in terms of JSON vs JSON-LD should we use different terminology
15:37:37 <phila> brent: IMo this could be addressed as a editorial change. What do others thing?
15:37:44 <phila> s/thing/think
15:37:48 <dlongley> +1 sounds editorial
15:37:58 <phila> brent: If no objection, I'll add a class 2 label
15:38:19 <phila> brent: If there's anything folks want to say, please jump on the queue
15:38:30 <dlongley> q+
15:38:31 <phila> brent: Should we rename? Makes sense to me
15:38:36 <brent> ack dlongley
15:39:12 <phila> dlongley: I think the spec currently calls it general vs type-specific. We no longer call it JSON vs JSON-LD. SO is there a better name than the spec currently has? I do think it's editorial
15:39:17 <phila> q+
15:39:28 <dlongley> scribe+
15:39:41 <dlongley> phila: You and I talked about this. We are looking for an editor for the VCDM spec.
15:40:14 <dlongley> phila: We are looking at who has been and has been active and we could use another name. We could use another name for political reasons so we have another person working for another company on that spec. We need you, thanks!
15:40:16 <dlongley> scribe-
15:40:51 <phila> brent: TO be clear, there is an ask for additional editorial support for VCDM 2.1
15:41:03 <phila> ... You can do it by telling the chairs, or you can just start writing PRs
15:41:32 <dmitriz> I'd volunteer, but I'm Invited Expert, and I suspect a member company person is needed for editor
15:41:33 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1619
15:41:33 <phila> brent: In that case we'll look through the other open issues for maintenance
15:41:43 <dmitriz> ok sweeet
15:41:54 <phila> phila: Yay!
15:42:10 <phila> brent: Reads the issue aloud
15:42:41 <phila> brent: raised in Feb. It's ready for PR - maybe someone else wants to raise the PR
15:42:46 <TallTed> q+
15:42:48 <phila> ... Any concerns/comments?
15:42:50 <phila> q-
15:42:56 <brent> ack TallTed
15:43:08 <phila> TallTed: I would suggest we re-ping the originator of the issue
15:43:21 <phila> ... They may not feel the need to say "I'm working on it"
15:43:32 <phila> ... But if they don't, then OK, we need to find an alternative
15:43:46 <phila> brent: OK, I'll ping them
15:43:49 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1592
15:44:02 <phila> brent: helpful comments in the intro.
15:44:38 <phila> ... Some recommended changes to reduce confusion. Class 2 editorial changes. We have talked about this a few times. This is an ideal issue for a new editor to jump into
15:44:42 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #vcwg
15:44:55 <phila> brent: Dmitri?
15:44:55 <dmitriz> yesss go ahead
15:45:13 <phila> brent; Awesome, thank you.
15:45:43 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1583
15:45:45 <phila> brent: As en editor, you get to suggest the editorial direction that hte group can then review
15:46:10 <phila> brent: This is about restructuring our security section. I think this is under way in our threat modelling
15:46:21 <Elaine> Elaine has joined #vcwg
15:46:26 <phila> ... Once that's done for the other TFs, this looks like something that can follow on
15:46:33 <phila> brent: Does anyone know how that's going?
15:46:41 <JoeAndrieu57> q+
15:46:46 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:47:23 <phila> JoeAndrieu57: I don't think anyone's assigned to this. Individual TFs know they have to do it in their work but no one has it assigned to them for the VCDM
15:47:49 <JoeAndrieu57> q+
15:47:58 <phila> brent: Is there anyone who wojuld be willing to be assigned to this issue? The task now is "keep an eye on the the modelling in the TFs"
15:47:58 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:48:05 <phila> JoeAndrieu57: I'm happy to do that
15:48:29 <phila> ... It depends when we need to start but I can keep an eye on what's happening and when it's time, ask me again and we'll see hwo things are
15:48:35 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1632
15:49:19 <phila> brent; Remove render and confidence models from the VCDM as they're being developed in separate doc. It's class 4 but we can do it within the charter as it comes from the new work we're chartered to fo.
15:49:38 <JoeAndrieu57> q+
15:49:40 <phila> brent: Right now the spec talks quite a bit about these extension points.
15:49:47 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:50:03 <dlongley> +1 to Joe's suggestion
15:50:07 <dmitriz> +1 to what Joe is saying -- we should definitely still point to that the properties exist
15:50:18 <phila> JoeAndrieu57: My though is that we should still clarify that the properties exist but we shouldn't define them in the VCDM and just point to the other docs for those defs
15:50:27 <phila> phila: +1 to Joe
15:50:45 <phila> brent: Hopefully this gives Ivan the guidance he needs to raise a PR
15:51:04 <phila> brent: We have talked about all the open issues that are within scope
15:51:14 <phila> brent: That means we're done for this week.
15:51:19 <phila> ... Any other topics?
15:51:38 <phila> brent: thanks scribe and dmitriz
15:51:50 <phila> brent: See you next week
15:51:57 <phila> zakim, end meeting
15:51:57 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been hsano, pdl-ASU, dlongley, JoeAndrieu, michaelshea, phila, wes-smith, TallTed, JennieM, brent, mlinck, exe, kezike, Elaine
15:52:00 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:52:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/15-vcwg-minutes.html Zakim
15:52:08 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, phila; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:52:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #vcwg
15:52:18 <phila> RRSAgent, please excuse us
15:52:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items