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15:05:00 <caribou> zakim, this is webrtc
15:05:01 <Zakim> got it, caribou
15:05:05 <caribou> zakim, start meeting
15:05:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:05:06 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), caribou
15:05:09 <caribou> zakim, this is webrtc
15:05:09 <Zakim> got it, caribou
15:05:31 <caribou> meeting: WebRTC WG Interim meeting
15:05:42 <caribou> chair: Guido, Jan-Ivar
15:06:56 <caribou> Present: Jan-Ivar, Guido, Carine, Kacper Wasniowsky, Shin Sun, Palak
15:07:01 <caribou> Scribe: caribou
15:07:26 <caribou> slideset: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1aivu0RWAtlHpJ4dFyTPblPXGMn-ZdK9GG2xuqgcg9MQ/edit
15:08:07 <caribou> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/July_14_2026
15:08:37 <caribou> Topic: MediaCapture-screen-share
15:08:53 <caribou> [slide 10]
15:09:03 <caribou> [slide 11]
15:09:42 <caribou> present+ Tim Panton
15:10:44 <caribou> [slide 12]
15:10:50 <caribou> [slide 13]
15:12:19 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: it sounds reasonable to me. The wording "high" for preference may not be usual
15:12:36 <caribou> ... what would be the change to the user experience
15:13:14 <caribou> Palak: we can show a dialog to the user to ask whether it's ok to capture audio
15:15:26 <caribou> Tim: @@@
15:15:57 <caribou> s/@@@/it seems an overlap in the space/
15:16:18 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: we can bikeshed on the value
15:16:32 <caribou> ... you don't need a 2-value-enum
15:16:49 <caribou> ... the absence of an audio preference is the default
15:16:57 <caribou> but a 1-value enum is strange
15:18:03 <caribou> Guido: it's more a hint for the application to say Audio is essential
15:18:57 <caribou> ... "try again and enable audio"
15:19:09 <caribou> ... it's still a hint, the user has the final say
15:19:30 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: we can start with a 1 enum value
15:20:14 <caribou> Guido: I'll prepare a PR to be discussed.
15:20:45 <caribou> Action: Guido to prepare a PR for audioPref
15:21:02 <caribou> Topic: Diagnostic Logging
15:21:07 <caribou> [slide 17]
15:22:29 <caribou> Guido: the UC is to help developers by allowing the UA to log internal WebRTC events
15:22:41 <caribou> s/events/data
15:23:27 <caribou> ... this proposal is about creating local logs, subject to explicit user authorization
15:23:36 <caribou> ... not exposed to the app
15:23:51 <caribou> ... data log format can be specific to the UA
15:24:06 <caribou> [slide 18]
15:24:58 <caribou> Guido: API shape with startDiagnosticLogging, finishDiagnosticLogging. Also cancelLogging, that removes any existing logging.
15:25:13 <caribou> ... returns random logging Id
15:25:38 <caribou> ... it never fails, takes on optional metadata argument
15:25:48 <caribou> [slide 19]
15:27:04 <caribou> [slide 20]
15:28:13 <caribou> Guido: the intention in chrome is to limit to enterprise users
15:28:41 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: would these objects exist all the time? or limited to enterprise users?
15:29:04 <caribou> Guido: it would be the best
15:29:19 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: how do you detect an enterprise user?
15:29:46 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: we already have static methods
15:29:56 <caribou> ... could this be static methods?
15:30:00 <caribou> Guido: yes
15:30:15 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: could they have a permission prompt?
15:30:52 <caribou> Guido: it could be, but it would add to prompt fatigue, so having an admin enabling this would be better
15:31:11 <caribou> ... integration with a permission API would be useful
15:31:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/14-webrtc-minutes.html caribou
15:32:46 <caribou> Tim: I'd prefer to have it in RTC connection
15:33:07 <caribou> ... somehow good to have enterprise level authorization
15:33:44 <caribou> Guido: we could have a setting in the UA to explicitly enable it
15:34:01 <caribou> Jan-Ivar : record?
15:34:50 <caribou> Guido: it could be possible to upload to an endpoint provided by the UA
15:35:04 <caribou> ... we don't want to log exposed to the application
15:35:17 <caribou> ... only if UA is authorized
15:35:39 <caribou> ... a user filing a bug could use the session number to refer to the log
15:36:44 <caribou> Topic: Encoded Source Update
15:36:52 <caribou> [slide 23]
15:37:40 <caribou> Guido: We allow the application to insert encoded frames directly into an RTCRtpSender
15:38:00 <caribou> ... the data is forwarded to nodes internally
15:38:18 <caribou> ... this is an API to better support that Use Case
15:39:10 <caribou> [slide 24]
15:40:28 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: @@@
15:40:39 <caribou> Guido: it could be similar to replace track
15:42:03 <caribou> ... I always prefer using a method
15:42:45 <caribou> ... it makes implementation easier
15:43:30 <caribou> ... but it's not a blocker
15:45:38 <caribou> [slide 25]
15:45:40 <caribou> [slide 26]
15:46:18 <caribou> Guido: developer feedback says that new constructors are needed
15:47:09 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: don't we already have constructors for frames?
15:47:16 <caribou> Guido: not with metadata
15:47:40 <caribou> [slide 27]
15:48:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/14-webrtc-minutes.html caribou
15:49:03 <caribou> present+ Peter Thatcher
15:50:21 <caribou> Guido: rtpTimestamp has a random initial value, so we need a timestampWithoutOffset
15:51:13 <caribou> [slide 28]
15:51:15 <caribou> [slide 29]
15:51:49 <caribou> Guido: we have a prototype. we'd like to make a PR and discuss
15:52:07 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: About the constructors.
15:52:31 <caribou> ... EncodedVideoChunk has a constructor
15:52:51 <caribou> ... have you considered web codecs as a potential input?
15:53:18 <caribou> ... could be kill 2 birds with one stone by reusing the web codecs version?
15:53:32 <caribou> Guido: we had a prototype with web codecs
15:53:50 <caribou> ... but we also need to add the metadata that this constructor does not have
15:54:46 <caribou> ... it might be useful to optimize
15:54:54 <caribou> ... I'm open to discussing it
15:56:31 <caribou> ... worth exploring
15:56:43 <caribou> [slide 30]
15:56:59 <caribou> Guido: Applications require some signals to better control the encoder
15:59:09 <caribou> [slide 31]
15:59:40 <caribou> Guido: proposed API shape
15:59:51 <caribou> [slide 32]
16:00:07 <caribou> Guido: add more in a v2
16:00:23 <caribou> [slide 33]
16:00:28 <caribou> Guido: prototoyped constructor
16:00:50 <caribou> ... works for audio and some UC for video
16:01:09 <caribou> [slide 34]
16:01:35 <caribou> Guido: we need more prototyping before proposing something for standardization
16:01:56 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: Overall it's great
16:02:23 <caribou> ... can you explain more about allocated bitrate?
16:02:42 <caribou> Guido: it's used to configure an encoder
16:03:11 <caribou> ... we can have a proxy encoder than can do the requested bitrate value
16:03:59 <caribou> Guido: we'll continue prototyping/
16:04:16 <caribou> Topic: WebRTC-PC Grab Bag
16:04:26 <caribou> [slide 37]
16:04:41 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: at last meeting we did not finish some issues
16:04:58 <caribou> ... underspecified resolutions
16:05:36 <caribou> [slide 38]
16:06:53 <caribou> [slide 39]
16:07:26 <caribou> [slide 40]
16:07:50 <caribou> Peter: I'd not say introspection into the SDP
16:08:15 <caribou> ... the SDP may not include everything all the time
16:08:42 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: it's worth checking after the meeting
16:08:57 <caribou> ... it's about the state of the peer connection
16:10:43 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: the SDP is already a well specified state of the connection
16:11:46 <caribou> ... previously we agreed on using verbatim string matching
16:12:07 <caribou> [slide 41]
16:12:46 <caribou> jan-Ivar: proposed changes to spec prose
16:13:23 <caribou> Tim: so you can have a selected pair that @@@1
16:13:39 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: it was already the case before
16:14:40 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: that language came from ORTC
16:15:04 <caribou> ... it happens to be the only insertion points for new candidates
16:15:17 <caribou> ... but they can appear inthe SDP
16:16:57 <caribou> Tim: still disappointed that peer reflexive candidates are not exposed
16:17:15 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: the proposal does not make that note disappear, indeed
16:18:07 <caribou> Guido: the proposal seems more useful, more accurate than the old one. We need to check for any compatiblity issue
16:18:23 <caribou> ... will evaluate that before giving answer
16:19:04 <caribou> Action: Jan-Ivar to make a PR on 3118/3119/3120 and get it reviewed
16:19:17 <caribou> Topic: MediaCapture Grab Bag
16:19:22 <caribou> [slide 44]
16:19:49 <caribou> -> https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-screen-share/issues/324 issue 324
16:20:26 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: first step of activation is to check whether too much time has passed
16:21:00 <caribou> ... then the web page can send only one @@@2
16:21:46 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: all implementation of getDisplayMedia picker are invasive
16:21:58 <caribou> [slide 45]
16:23:58 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: proposal is to consume transient activation in getDisplayMedia
16:25:21 <caribou> ... there's also a 3rd option with media session and p-in-p
16:25:37 <caribou> Tim: is there an interaction with audio play?
16:26:18 <caribou> ... if you do gDM and you want a self-view with your audio, if your consume the activation the audio play will fail
16:26:43 <caribou> ... e.g. taking an audio track and play it right away
16:27:20 <caribou> Jan-Ivar: looking for audio use cases that might be broken by this?
16:27:41 <caribou> ... can't find any, but worth checking. Raise issues if you find them
16:28:15 <caribou> Tim: it really is consuming so it seems that there might be interactions. no precise UC
16:29:40 <caribou> ... it looks similar to gUM, but it won't work the same
16:30:03 <caribou> ... can we just flag the difference so people realize it's not the same behaving
16:30:16 <caribou> s/behaving/behaviour/
16:31:04 <caribou> ... a warning in the text seems necessary
16:31:44 <caribou> Action: Jan-Ivar to look into the possible issues/UCs
16:32:21 <caribou> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:32:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/07/14-webrtc-minutes.html caribou
18:24:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webrtc