IRC log of svg on 2026-06-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

05:46:36 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/06/25-svg-irc
05:46:45 [krit]
scribe: krit
05:47:36 [ydaniv]
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05:47:47 [caribou]
present: Dirk, Karl, Tav, Yehonatav, Carine, Nikolas
05:49:20 [krit]
topic: refX/refY keyword forms unimplemented and no WPT tests
05:49:24 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/1137
05:49:28 [nzimmermann]
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05:49:31 [nzimmermann]
present+
05:49:42 [ydaniv]
present+
05:49:51 [krit]
karlcow: Implemented refX/refY in markler w/o keywords but percentage/number
05:50:08 [krit]
karlcow: For symbol, not implemented in browsers but for InkScape it is
05:50:39 [krit]
present+
05:50:49 [karlcow]
present+
05:50:55 [krit]
Tav: has been implemented a long time ago
05:51:02 [Tav]
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05:51:11 [Tav]
present+
05:51:37 [krit]
karlcow: Keywords implemented on Symbols in InkScape
05:51:59 [krit]
karlcow: ditto for marker
05:52:27 [krit]
karlcow: at the moment there is no coverage in WPT
05:53:22 [krit]
karlcow: The specification text seems vague for now with the SVGLength and how the keywords fit into SVGDOMs SVGLength.
05:53:34 [krit]
nzimmermann: and from the parsing perspective...
05:54:02 [krit]
nzimmermann: the grammar only accepts percentage length for SVGLength+percentage. It could be extended.
05:54:30 [krit]
krit: is it actively used in InkScape?
05:54:56 [krit]
Tav: likely for canned symbols to make align correct. You don't have to move the symbol to align it to a specific point.
05:55:13 [krit]
karlcow: I understand the use case for symbol with refX and refY
05:55:30 [krit]
karlcow: ... but should we expose the mechanism instead of special casing symbol?
05:55:39 [krit]
karlcow: could it make SVG simpler to use?
05:56:12 [krit]
Tav: we keep track of the center of the shape. This is most useful for shapes like starts and rotate around its center point
05:56:22 [krit]
nzimmermann: for this, we now have transform-origin
05:56:35 [krit]
Tav: this was invented before CSS came up with transform-origin
05:56:52 [krit]
nzimmermann: refX and refY are independent of transformation.
05:57:13 [krit]
nzimmermann: you would need a skew + scale to see the affect of it
05:57:32 [krit]
nzimmermann: karlcow though that we could make it more generic and apply it to all shape kinds
05:58:20 [krit]
yehonatan: For generic shapes it is common to define a place and shift from it
05:58:32 [krit]
nzimmermann: then you would need to know the dimension of the shape.
05:58:46 [krit]
... otherwise it would resolve to the viewport and not the shape
05:59:20 [krit]
yehonatan: As the deveoper of the component, you know how the shape works and you want to align it for instance with text (baseline and so on)
05:59:36 [krit]
nzimmerann: So it would make more sense to make it for symbols?
06:00:03 [krit]
nzimmermann: At the end you don't want to alter the clipping and that is what refX and refY is good for.
06:00:11 [krit]
Tav: it is always good for animations
06:00:43 [krit]
Tav: refX and refY you want to be a specific point/anchor to place the object.
06:00:55 [krit]
Tav: This is mostly coming from people doing maps.
06:01:04 [nzimmermann]
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06:01:08 [krit]
nzimmermann: We still ned WPT coverage
06:01:25 [krit]
s/nzimmerannn/nzimmermann/
06:01:38 [krit]
karlcow: If you have tests, please add those to WPT
06:01:52 [krit]
Tav: I have to search. They would need to get modified for WPT.
06:01:58 [krit]
Tav: But I can create them
06:02:14 [ydaniv]
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06:02:51 [krit]
ACTION: Tav will check if he can contribute existing refX/refY tests to WPT
06:03:41 [krit]
RESOLUTION: We keep refX/refY with keywords on symbol and marker in the spec. More implementations needed still
06:04:12 [krit]
krit: what about the spec text that needs approvements?
06:04:28 [krit]
karlcow: The IDL with SVGLength is not clear. Especially with animations and keywords.
06:05:34 [krit]
krit: We could add a new value type for enumerations but this would still not allow animation from enum val to percentage for instance.
06:06:26 [krit]
ACTION: nzimmermann and karlcow to look into refining the IDL spec text for refX and refY for keywords and SVGLength
06:06:39 [ydaniv]
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06:06:55 [krit]
topic: Define how requiredExtensions values should be interpreted
06:06:59 [krit]
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/138
06:07:12 [ydaniv]
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06:07:22 [krit]
karlcow: the attribute can take links
06:07:40 [krit]
karlcow: there are 2 hard coded values: namespace for HTML and XML
06:07:55 [krit]
karlcow: there still is mathml for one implementation (gecko?)
06:08:05 [ydaniv]
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06:08:29 [krit]
karlcow: I wonder if InkScape has more namespaces than the 2/3 or if it is also limited to a set of namespaces
06:08:44 [krit]
karlcow: if so, we can limit the namespaces to HTML and MathML
06:09:35 [krit]
Tav: we don't have additional namespaces. I don't think we support requiredExtensions
06:09:57 [krit]
nzimmermann: seems resonable to limit the support to HTML and MathML.
06:10:26 [krit]
nzimmermann: it would be up to an implementation how to "rendeer" and XML tree. Gecko's support is nice but I don't see authors using it
06:10:33 [krit]
nzimmermann: support limitation to HTML and MathML
06:10:48 [krit]
nzimmermann: on the other hand: is there any case where it would resolve to false?
06:11:02 [krit]
nzimmermann: browsers do support both after all
06:11:14 [krit]
nzimmermann: or is it possible to turn of MathML in browsers?
06:11:20 [krit]
nzimmermann: maybe Gecko does?
06:12:19 [krit]
ydaniv: There might be security factors involved.
06:12:57 [krit]
ydaniv: It does seem to be listed as an issue by sanitizer API
06:13:04 [karlcow]
https://github.com/cure53/dompurify
06:13:20 [krit]
ydaniv: that is why most people avoid it
06:13:47 [krit]
caribou: It would be interesting to know if HTML is problematic but MathML isn't?
06:14:05 [krit]
ydaniv: yeah then it could become useful
06:14:50 [krit]
nzimmermann: I did not check dompurify but there are many features listed. Even preserveAspectRatio is listed.
06:15:12 [krit]
ydaniv: some I added myself. requireExtensions I never had to use. So need to look it up
06:15:50 [krit]
ydaniv: if the attribute is problematic, I wonder if it is worth the trouble.
06:16:07 [krit]
ydaniv: I can look it up and get back on the issue
06:16:38 [krit]
RESOLUTION: Limit namespaces for requiredExtensions to HTML and MathML
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06:17:57 [krit]
topic: charter
06:18:06 [caribou]
https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/559
06:18:14 [krit]
caribou: there is a new draft for an upcoming charter
06:18:59 [krit]
caribou: trying to get the approval within the next 3 months and then bring it up to AC
06:19:22 [krit]
karlcow: this is only for 3 months?
06:19:41 [krit]
caribou: Idea is to get a follow-up charter that is good for 2 years.
06:20:30 [krit]
caribou: I'd like to prepare a republication. I hope I get to it next week.
06:20:41 [krit]
caribou: July 13 is the end of the charter
06:20:59 [caribou]
s/charter/publication moratorium
06:21:20 [caribou]
charter expires on june 30th
06:27:27 [karlcow]
RRSAgent, make logs public
06:27:39 [karlcow]
RRSAgent, make minutes
06:27:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/25-svg-minutes.html karlcow
06:28:15 [karlcow]
Meeting: SVG WG
06:28:19 [karlcow]
RRSAgent, make minutes
06:28:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/25-svg-minutes.html karlcow
12:28:09 [Zakim]
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