15:49:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
15:49:22 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-irc
15:49:22 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
15:49:22 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:49:23 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), AndyS
15:49:59 <AndyS> meeting: RDF and SPARQL Working Group
15:49:59 <AndyS> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/06/11-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:49:59 <AndyS> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/06/25-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:50:09 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
15:50:27 <AndyS> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20260618T120000/#agenda
15:50:27 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:50:27 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/06/04-rdf-star-minutes.html  -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2026/06/11-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:50:27 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
15:50:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
15:50:29 <agendabot> agenda+ Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
15:50:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
15:50:43 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:50:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
15:50:51 <AndyS> present+
15:51:18 <AndyS> agenda?
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15:55:36 <ktk> regrets+ ora, pfps, william-vw, gtw
15:55:46 <ktk> regrets+ pchampin
15:55:50 <ktk> present+
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15:57:55 <ktk> Chair: ktk
15:57:56 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:57:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
15:59:39 <Tpt> present+
16:00:07 <rubensworks> present+
16:00:18 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
16:00:26 <niklasl> present+
16:01:04 <lisp> lisp has joined #rdf-star
16:01:11 <niklasl> scribe+
16:01:51 <AndyS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
16:02:00 <pfps> present+
16:02:01 <tl> present+
16:02:32 <lisp> present+
16:02:39 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:02:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/06/04-rdf-star-minutes.html  -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2026/06/11-rdf-star-minutes.html --
16:02:42 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
16:02:55 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:03:00 <TallTed> present+
16:03:03 <olaf> present+
16:03:05 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:03:10 <Souri> present+
16:03:50 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from 2026-06-04 and 2026-06-11
16:03:54 <niklasl> +1
16:03:56 <rubensworks> +0
16:03:56 <ktk> +1
16:04:01 <AndyS> +1
16:04:03 <Souri> +1
16:04:04 <tl> +1
16:04:06 <pfps> minutes look acceptable - some misplaced bits but nothing that needs to be fixed
16:04:08 <Tpt> +1
16:04:31 <TallTed> +1
16:04:31 <olaf> +0 (didn't attend)
16:04:54 <ktk> RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 2026-06-04 and 2026-06-11
16:05:04 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:05:04 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:10 <lisp> +1
16:05:39 <niklasl> niklasl: No news
16:06:12 <niklasl> AndyS: I've prepared the PRs, action can be closed.
16:07:15 <j22> j22 has joined #rdf-star
16:07:20 <j22> present+
16:07:21 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/tpac2026-meetings/issues/60
16:07:22 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/tpac2026-meetings/issues/60 -> Issue 60 RDF & SPARQL Working Group (by ktk) [session]
16:07:41 <niklasl> ktk: Re. ISWC - we're now committed for TPAC joint session Monday afternoon block 14:15-17:15 (presumably CEST)
16:07:56 <niklasl> AndyS: Dublin time?
16:08:29 <niklasl> ... Yes,   CEST -1 h.
16:09:14 <niklasl> ktk: Reserve Monday after lunch then to be safe. Confirmed from schedule: All times are Dublin, Ireland.
16:09:26 <niklasl> q+
16:10:50 <ktk> ack niklasl
16:10:51 <niklasl> niklasl: We discussed voting on if WG should publish the "OWLish note" eventually.
16:11:03 <niklasl> ktk: I'll add that as a topic for next week.
16:11:03 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:11:03 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:12:39 <niklasl> ktk: Any PR that needs discussion or can be merged?
16:12:45 <rubensworks> q+
16:12:54 <ktk> ack rubensworks
16:12:58 <rubensworks> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/388
16:12:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/388 -> Pull Request 388 Fix triple patterns being acceptable in subject position of triple patterns (by rubensworks)
16:14:09 <olaf> q+
16:14:14 <ktk> ack olaf
16:14:16 <niklasl> rubensworks: I think this PR can be closed. We allowe4d triple patterns as subjects and opened PR to fix this; but this is an intentional structure due to property paths. So this can be closed I believe.
16:15:12 <lisp> +1
16:15:18 <niklasl> olaf: It can be closed. This issue might come up again. I initially had a note about why this is supported. That was requested to be removed, but now I wonder if we don't actually need such a note.
16:15:31 <AndyS> q+
16:15:37 <ktk> ack AndyS
16:17:10 <niklasl> AndyS: We've got the note about literals, and what can only be determined at runtime. I'm not sure why to justify this particular case, but we can discuss it on github.
16:17:29 <niklasl> olaf. I mean specifically for the property paths rewrite.
16:17:37 <niklasl> s/olaf./olaf:/
16:18:11 <niklasl> ... I suspect we will get this specific question again. It's not so obvious right now.
16:18:12 <Tpt> q+
16:18:27 <niklasl> AndyS: Not just for paths; it's for construct templates as well.
16:19:01 <niklasl> ... I'm not against a note; it's just difficult to make it clear with more words.
16:19:33 <niklasl> tpt: Since we also have symmetry also for literals, it makes sense to mention both.
16:19:58 <niklasl> AndyS: There is a note about literals already, but it's more historical.
16:20:08 <ktk> ack Tpt
16:20:35 <niklasl> ktk: So The discussed PR will be closed and a new one made for the note?
16:20:39 <niklasl> olaf: Yes
16:20:55 <niklasl> s/So The/So the/
16:21:42 <niklasl> ktk: Anything to be merged? The PR for a note in concepts?
16:21:49 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/275
16:21:50 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/275 -> Pull Request 275 add note about sets of quads vs. dataset (by pchampin)
16:22:22 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/150
16:22:23 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/150 -> Pull Request 150 Version fix (by pchampin)
16:23:57 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/pull/115
16:23:57 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/pull/115 -> Pull Request 115 Add commas for clarity (by afs)
16:24:35 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-json/pull/47
16:24:35 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-json/pull/47 -> Pull Request 47 Adds dark mode and simplify CSS (by Tpt) [spec:editorial]
16:26:32 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-xml/pull/55
16:26:33 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-xml/pull/55 -> Pull Request 55 Dark mode, CSS and presentation simplifications (by Tpt) [spec:editorial]
16:27:26 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-tests/pull/260
16:27:26 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-tests/pull/260 -> Pull Request 260 Beginning of manifest validations using SHACL (by Tpt)
16:28:25 <niklasl> tpt: We can merge the dark mode PRS; for the last one I need to work on the SCHACL shape.
16:28:36 <ktk> q?
16:29:34 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/pull/107
16:29:34 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/pull/107 -> Pull Request 107 implement TAG recommendation about error handling (by pchampin) [spec:substantive]
16:30:00 <niklasl> ktk: We'l wait for Pierre-Antoine to be back for this one.
16:30:32 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86
16:30:32 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86 -> Issue 86 Evolving 1.2 triple term features : rdf:parseType, rdf:annotation (by afs) [ms:CR]
16:31:21 <niklasl> AndyS: We need to go through the document and have a consistent policy for e.g. requiring the version directive or not.
16:31:52 <niklasl> ... At the moment there are different policies for different parts of the document.
16:32:30 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:32:30 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:34:17 <niklasl> niklasl: Looks like just a question.
16:34:28 <niklasl> AndyS: Yes, I can close unless anyone objects.
16:35:12 <ktk> q?
16:36:08 <ktk> q?
16:36:14 <Tpt> q+
16:36:52 <niklasl> Tpt: It might be nice to have a SPARQL session to triage some of these.
16:37:09 <niklasl> ktk. In the SPARQL group or reserve time for this next week?
16:37:39 <niklasl> Tpt: Prefer on Thursday personally.
16:37:49 <niklasl> rubensworks: I can next Thursday.
16:37:58 <niklasl> ktk: We'll add that to the agenda.
16:38:13 <olaf> I think Tpt created the list.
16:38:34 <Tpt> this one: https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/issues/326
16:38:35 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/issues/326 -> Issue 326 Remaining erratas and errata-like issues (by Tpt)
16:39:08 <ktk> ack Tpt
16:39:13 <niklasl> Tpt: I'll update it before the weekend so it's in order for next meeting.
16:39:23 <lisp> q+
16:42:08 <niklasl> lisp: An issue for RDF concepts which arose when implementing. There appears to be a significant issue, that triple terms needs to be indexed both according to their constituent properties, and as terms. In a system with ACL, on needs to record them and identify them, and these introduce a risk of sidechanneling information disclosure, which is
16:42:08 <niklasl> more intricate than with just IRIs, as these record specific relationships.
16:43:00 <niklasl> ... Mechanism could be introduced to isolate them in a multitenant system. I haven't seen discussion on this, therefore I bring it up.
16:43:04 <ktk> ack lisp
16:43:21 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/281
16:43:22 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/281 -> Issue 281 where is a discussion of risks inherent in representing triple terms (by lisp)
16:43:43 <ktk> q?
16:43:53 <niklasl> ... If you have a dictionary-based implementation, triple terms will show up there.
16:45:35 <niklasl> q+
16:45:40 <ktk> ack niklasl
16:46:31 <AndyS> q+
16:46:53 <rubensworks> q+
16:47:07 <ktk> ack AndyS
16:50:44 <ktk> ack rubensworks
16:50:52 <niklasl> niklasl: A joint session for JSON-LD and RDF at TPAC has been suggested. JSON-LD WG has no dedicated slots planned.
16:51:17 <ktk> q?
16:51:20 <niklasl> ... To discuss general alignment, and specifics re. annotations and triple terms.
16:51:27 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:51:27 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:51:45 <niklasl> AndyS: The external context security issue would be good to discuss as well.
16:51:56 <niklasl> rubensworks: I'd be interested in this too.
16:52:11 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:52:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
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16:53:39 <ktk> s/allowe4d/allowed/
16:53:51 <ktk> s/SCHACL/SHACL/
16:54:00 <ktk> s/ktk./ktk:/
16:54:07 <ktk> s/We’l/We’ll/
16:54:14 <ktk> s/sidechanneling/side-channeling/
16:54:23 <ktk> s/erratas/errata/
16:54:42 <ktk> s/Re. ISWC/Re: ISWC/
16:55:09 <ktk> s/PRS/PRs/
16:55:17 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:55:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:55:59 <ktk> s/We'l/We'll/
16:56:06 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:56:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:56:42 <ktk> Zakim, close meeting
16:56:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close meeting', ktk
16:56:47 <ktk> RRSAgent, leave
16:56:47 <RRSAgent> I see no action items