11:59:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pmwg
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11:59:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
11:59:44 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group
11:59:51 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Details 2026-06-18: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pm-wg/2026Jun/0008.html
11:59:52 <ivan> Chair: wendy
11:59:52 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Maintenance Working Group Telco
11:59:52 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pm-wg/2026Jun/0008.html
11:59:53 <ivan> regrets+ susan, shiestyle, gautier
12:58:42 <AvneeshSingh> AvneeshSingh has joined #pmwg
12:59:18 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pmwg
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12:59:37 <toshiakikoike> present+
12:59:47 <wendyreid> present+
13:00:03 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pmwg
13:01:22 <ivan> present+
13:01:40 <ivan> present+ AvneeshSingh
13:01:47 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pmwg
13:03:17 <ivan> present+ amanda
13:03:41 <ivan> present+ CharlesL
13:03:56 <mgarrish> present+
13:04:46 <wendyreid> scribe+
13:05:01 <wendyreid> Topic: Watermarking in EPUB - https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/3021
13:05:39 <wendyreid> ivan: We got this as a comment from the Privacy Review, it comes from them but they made it clear it's not a blocker for the horizontal review.
13:05:56 <wendyreid> ... essentially the question is do we address the issue of watermarking in the privacy section of the document
13:06:04 <wendyreid> ... I haven't looked, can we add anything?
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13:06:18 <mgarrish> q+
13:06:23 <wendyreid> ... we discussed this in the chair's call and it does come close to DRM so we usually avoid it
13:06:25 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
13:06:27 <ivan> ack mgarrish
13:06:29 <DaleRogers> present+
13:06:57 <wendyreid> mgarrish: Was going to say the same, we could tie it up with DRM itself and leave the section alone to just what we already have for DRM, just add watermarking, I started drafting something
13:07:11 <ivan> q?
13:07:11 <wendyreid> ... addition of one sentence to add watermarking
13:07:15 <CharlesL> +1 to Matt's suggestion, just add Watermarking & DRM.
13:07:22 <ivan> q+
13:07:26 <wendyreid> ... it's close to DRM and can be applied to an EPUB but isn't part of the spec itself
13:07:41 <wendyreid> ... nothing we need to do in the standard itself, we know people do it, but that's as far as we should go
13:07:44 <wendyreid> ack ivan
13:07:45 <ivan> ack ivan
13:08:21 <wendyreid> ivan: I agree, but for the sake of discussion, from a privacy view, DRM and watermarking are different, watermarking automatically takes a piece of information and makes it visible
13:08:35 <CharlesL> q+
13:08:36 <mgarrish> q+
13:08:40 <wendyreid> ... DRM is in the background and obfuscated, to Nick's question, they are different
13:08:41 <ivan> ack CharlesL
13:08:43 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
13:09:24 <wendyreid> CharlesL: Benetech and Bookshare uses watermarking on the EPUBs, there's two kinds, one that uses the user's name or ID in the metadata, or attached to a boilerplate copyright notice added to the book
13:10:04 <wendyreid> ... the other type is hidden, it just adds spaces or different characters in the publication you wouldn't notice unless you had the algorithm to find them, and in that case it can be the person's name or ID
13:10:10 <wendyreid> ... public vs private watermarking
13:10:19 <wendyreid> ... wanted to point out these options
13:10:21 <ivan> ack mgarrish
13:10:21 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
13:11:05 <wendyreid> mgarrish: I was going to add, we don't say anything specific about DRM right now, all we say is it could reveal personal information about the reader, similar to what watermarking does based on Charles' comments
13:11:19 <wendyreid> ... you could get some of this information from the book metadata as well
13:11:34 <wendyreid> ... we can tack this on very easily, I can open the PR with what I have, and see if we think it makes sense
13:11:37 <wendyreid> ivan: Let's do that
13:11:46 <wendyreid> q+
13:11:52 <ivan> ack wendyreid
13:13:39 <wendyreid> wendyreid: Good to note the PDF shared by Nick in the issue, we should follow practices
13:13:55 <wendyreid> mgarrish: Agreed, the PDF does a good job of explaining it, better than we can, we reference it
13:14:08 <wendyreid> ... don't want to deal with it more than we have to, show some best practices
13:14:34 <AvneeshSingh> q+
13:14:38 <wendyreid> Topic: CR
13:14:51 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
13:14:56 <ivan> ack AvneeshSingh
13:15:19 <wendyreid> AvneeshSingh: Update on accessibility horizontal review, Matthew himself is reviewing, he is hoping to complete it this week
13:15:28 <AvneeshSingh> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/164
13:15:54 <wendyreid> ivan: If my memory is correct, what we don't have is the security response, if the a11y review is coming in a few days
13:16:27 <wendyreid> ... I met with Simone and raised the security review, explained what had changed, he sort of agreed, he said he would look at it
13:16:31 <wendyreid> ... still waiting on it
13:16:58 <wendyreid> ... my proposal would be once we have a11y sign off, we go to CR, essentially we start the CR transition process
13:17:09 <wendyreid> ... we'll need to have a resolution, can't do it today as we don't have enough people
13:17:22 <wendyreid> ... we have to pass a resolution, then we should start the process, time out for security
13:17:49 <wendyreid> ... we have the right to do it, we feel we've done what we had to do. We are not required to wait years to get a response
13:17:59 <wendyreid> ... my recommendation for the process
13:18:19 <ivan> q?
13:18:21 <wendyreid> ... to be clear, we're talking about EPUB 3.4 , EPUB RS 3.4, and EPUB A11y 1.2
13:18:34 <wendyreid> ... everyone is in agreement?
13:18:38 <CharlesL> q+
13:18:43 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
13:18:53 <wendyreid> CharlesL: No opposition, did we get i18n review?
13:18:58 <wendyreid> ... do we need a TAG review?
13:19:16 <wendyreid> ivan: We got i18n approval and TAG didn't see a need to review since there wasn't big changes
13:19:30 <wendyreid> ... now that we have privacy and A11y soon, security is the only missing one
13:19:39 <wendyreid> mgarrish: Did we have this problem last time?
13:20:00 <wendyreid> ivan: We got a security review last time, a big one
13:20:52 <wendyreid> wendyreid: It was one review last time, two this time
13:21:07 <wendyreid> mgarrish: May be thinking of DPUB ARIA as well
13:21:57 <wendyreid> ivan: There will be practical things for timing I'll work with Matt on, and a publication moratorium in July, once we have a resolution, Matt and I can work on this directly
13:22:15 <wendyreid> mgarrish: We have the understanding document
13:22:36 <wendyreid> ... Understanding A11y 1.2, wanted to have it published at least as a draft note
13:22:48 <wendyreid> ... want to have it more official
13:23:38 <ivan> q+
13:23:38 <wendyreid> wendyreid: I wouldn't want to ask people to vote on a doc they know nothing about
13:23:55 <wendyreid> mgarrish: I'm just worried about the publishing moratorium
13:24:00 <AvneeshSingh> q+
13:24:01 <wendyreid> ... is next week cutting it too close?
13:24:06 <wendyreid> ack ivan
13:24:25 <wendyreid> ivan: Moratorium starts July 3 until the 13th, and I'm on vacation most of that time
13:25:04 <wendyreid> ... if we pass a resolution today its doable, but I leave that to Wendy
13:25:21 <wendyreid> mgarrish: Just a draft note, not a spec
13:25:31 <wendyreid> ivan: Still a first public draft note
13:25:40 <wendyreid> mgarrish: Don't want people to think we're going down rec track
13:25:44 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
13:26:24 <wendyreid> AvneeshSingh: Should we send an email to do this instead? So people have a chance to review, but we need a URL and publication for it, we haven't had it in the agenda but we can give people time.
13:27:18 <wendyreid> [admin things]
13:27:51 <wendyreid> ivan: We'll need to close the PRs before going to CR
13:28:02 <AvneeshSingh> q+
13:28:10 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/3026
13:28:20 <wendyreid> mgarrish: We might want Nick's comment
13:28:38 <wendyreid> ivan: CfC should be on a document with no upcoming changes
13:28:53 <wendyreid> mgarrish: We've done approvals contingent on certain decisions
13:29:01 <wendyreid> ... we can mention it in the CR
13:29:03 <wendyreid> ack AvneeshSingh
13:29:13 <wendyreid> AvneeshSingh: Do we need to do CR email today or on Monday/
13:29:28 <wendyreid> ... to Monday we will have time to do this and then we might have a11y review completion
13:29:48 <wendyreid> ... today we can do the draft note and the PR, then we can put the call out on monday for the CR
13:30:06 <wendyreid> ivan: Just to avoid confusion, make them separate
13:31:04 <mgarrish> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub34/a11y-understand/
13:33:01 <wendyreid> [more admin things]
13:34:28 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:34:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/18-pmwg-minutes.html ivan
13:34:52 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #pmwg
13:35:14 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
13:35:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items