13:58:31 RRSAgent has joined #me 13:58:36 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-irc 13:58:36 Zakim has joined #me 13:58:50 Meeting: MEIG monthly meeting 13:58:59 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f61979af-ab49-43a8-a35c-30b92c2e1571/20260602T150000/ 13:59:02 scribe+ cpn 14:01:18 ohmata has joined #me 14:02:58 present+ Nigel_Megitt 14:03:02 scribe+ nigel 14:03:13 rrsagent, make minutes 14:03:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-minutes.html nigel 14:03:27 rrsagent, make logs public 14:03:29 Present: Chris Needham, Song Xu, Roy Ruoxi Ran, Bernd Czelhan, Hisayuki Ohmata, Jianhua Zheng, Francois Daoust 14:03:38 Chair: Chris Needham, Song Xu 14:03:47 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f61979af-ab49-43a8-a35c-30b92c2e1571/20260602T150000/ 14:03:51 present+ Rob Smith 14:04:06 present+ Kazuhiro Hoya 14:04:35 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-minutes.html 14:04:48 Topic: Agenda 14:05:11 cpn: Main topic will be impacts of AI on MEIG's mission. 14:05:21 .. Also want to raise TPAC and potential meetings. 14:05:29 .. Anything else anyone would like to cover, or announcements to make? 14:05:59 Nigel: We published a new version of IMSC recommendation a few weeks ago 14:06:01 Nigel: If it needs announcing, TTWG published IMSC Text Profile 1.3 two weeks ago 14:06:28 Topic: TPAC preparation 14:06:50 cpn: [shares screen] 14:07:00 .. Last year we had a morning dedicated to MEIG topics, on the Monday. 14:07:11 .. In the afternoon we had a joint meeting with TTWG, 14:07:20 .. and later in the week a joint meeting with TTWG and APA WG 14:07:32 .. At the moment, we've been asked to confirm how much meeting time we want. 14:07:42 .. Then we can figure out more details of the agenda and so on. 14:07:50 .. My suggestion is that we do the same as last year, 14:08:00 .. unless anyone thinks we need maybe additional time for specific topics. 14:08:13 .. If the TTWG wants to we would be happy to have a joint meeting. 14:08:24 .. The APA WG joint meeting has generally been quite productive as well. 14:08:36 .. I propose we request the same structure as last year. 14:08:46 .. Thoughts on that proposal? Or other suggestions? 14:08:54 Nigel: Sounds good to me 14:09:14 .. I'll check with TTWG on Thursday this week 14:09:37 cpn: I will assume we are comfortable with that proposal and request those timeslots 14:09:52 .. I've also created a GitHub issue where we can collect items for the agenda. 14:09:56 https://github.com/w3c/media-and-entertainment/issues/121 <- Agenda planning isssue 14:10:11 cpn: I welcome requests for agenda time or topic suggestions in that issue. 14:10:15 q+ 14:11:12 Nigel: AI is a hot topic, and there are likely to be concerns or questions or proposals for changing how people consume media on the web, browsers with local agents 14:11:27 ... It might be prudent to allocate time for that as a specific topic 14:12:07 cpn: I welcome that, thank you. 14:12:11 Topic: AI impacts on MEIG mission 14:12:42 https://github.com/w3c/webai-roadmap/issues 14:12:45 cpn: I noticed Roy you have been editing the Web AI roadmap. Can you talk to us about it? 14:12:53 kaz has joined #me 14:13:01 https://w3c.github.io/webai-roadmap/ 14:13:03 Roy_Ruoxi: Above is the repo where we're working on it. 14:13:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:13:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-minutes.html kaz 14:13:17 .. And the document where we're talking about W3C technologies. 14:13:35 .. First we are describing existing W3C technologies to support AI, things like 14:13:53 .. WebGPU, WebAssembly and WebRTC, and some data things like RDF, JSON-LD, 14:13:57 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 14:14:03 .. that AI agents might use to understand web content. 14:14:17 .. There's also CG work like AI Agent protocols. 14:14:37 .. WebMCP is worked on in the Web Machine Learning CG. 14:14:48 .. There are some security and privacy and ethical considerations. 14:15:05 .. This year we realised that not only our technology supports AI in the web platform 14:15:16 .. but also we should consider how AI effects our existing technologies. 14:15:26 https://github.com/w3c/webai-roadmap/issues 14:15:31 .. All the issues were set up by Dom with me working with him. 14:15:51 .. We asked each WG and IG if AI has impacts on existing standards or if anything 14:16:00 .. needs to be adapted due to emerging AI things. 14:16:16 .. For the MEIG we would like participants to think if there is any impact to our existing 14:16:29 .. work, or if there are gaps between web AI technology and our existing work. 14:16:50 .. That's the purpose and background, why there are a lot of issues in the webai-roadmap repo. 14:17:09 cpn: Thank you. The issue asks about the impact of AI technologies on the mission of the group, 14:17:12 .. i.e. the scope. 14:17:17 q+ 14:17:19 .. We have a mission statement in the Charter 14:17:24 q- n 14:17:46 .. It looks like the mission is the same, but AI brings a new topic of conversation and focus 14:17:57 .. to consider, but from a charter perspective it's within the current remit. 14:18:08 .. We can go into some specifics soon. 14:18:19 .. There are wider implications in terms of the impact of AI media creation on the web 14:18:28 .. as a whole, which is a slightly different topic, but interesting. 14:18:44 .. Media is being increasingly created with AI, and that affects what people are able to create, 14:18:56 .. with beneficial and perhaps some detrimental effects that might be interesting 14:18:57 .. to analyse also. 14:19:09 .. It has led to media requirements about content labelling, from regulators for example, 14:19:18 .. which might drive the need for technical standards for labelling. 14:19:35 .. For the feedback you're looking for, do you want specific examples or use cases? 14:19:40 .. What input would be helpful? 14:19:47 Roy_Ruoxi: I think everything is good! 14:20:06 .. I'm not an expert on all the aspects. With regard to M&E I guess it might have an 14:20:22 .. impact on a lot of things. The use cases would be helpful, so we can integrate them 14:20:29 .. and see if there's anything W3C needs to do. 14:20:47 cpn: In practical terms, is it better for us to collate that input here and send it to you, 14:20:55 .. or comment directly in the GitHub issue that Dom created? 14:21:10 Roy_Ruoxi: You can comment on the issue directly, or if you don't want it public then 14:21:14 .. contact me privately. 14:21:24 cpn: OK, sounds like that might lead to potential future work. 14:21:26 q? 14:21:45 Rob: Thinking about content labelling and creation, AI is basically pattern 14:21:57 .. recognition and media is a big pattern of audio and imagery, which seems like a rich 14:22:13 .. field to explore, with many issues to explore, looking at it from the other perspective. 14:22:17 cpn: Good thought. 14:22:28 Rob: And the impact on security, privacy and copyright. 14:22:30 q> 14:22:35 s/q>// 14:22:37 ack ka 14:23:13 kaz: So-called "AI" today is based on [X] 14:23:25 .. we should be clear about which use case and which parts and which industry 14:23:25 s/[X]/generative AI/ 14:23:38 .. is related to W3C standardisation. 14:23:55 .. If the MEIG would try to handle updated recent version of metadata handling using 14:24:18 .. so-called AI services that is fine. Any kind of use cases could be applied. 14:24:31 .. For example, media metadata and format discussions e.g. proposed by Dolby 14:24:38 .. should be our first priority from the MEIG viewpoint. 14:24:44 cpn: That's consistent with the scope of the Charter. 14:24:49 q+ to talk about TT 14:24:59 cpn: Thank you 14:25:39 Nigel: This came up in TTWG, we looked similarly at our mission statement. From the point of view of timed text data formats, there isn't really any change to make 14:25:51 ... either based on creation or consumption of timed text data if AI is used 14:26:31 ... But we also noticed that there are developments that could impact the content of specifications we write. Some organisations add data to subtitles and captions, e.g., tone or emotion or loudness of sounds 14:27:00 ... When presenting timed text on screen, with user customisation, allowing those dimensions to modify how text is presented: text size, font, animation 14:27:12 present+ 14:27:44 RobSmith has joined #me 14:27:47 ... to try to convey those dimensions and give a richer experience to audiences. We thought this is a good moment to open things up to allow new standardisation requirements to be supported 14:28:11 ... Some companies do this by hand, takes 1 hour for 1 minute of content. That's not sustainable. They created an AI product to do it more quickly 14:29:14 ... There are use cases AI might enable practically that we haven't captured. In TTWG we could try to gather those requirements. We want to ask MEIG, in a place with less IPR commitments, set up a TF to investigate and see if there are requirements to bring back to TTWG 14:29:31 ... Invite companies to come talk to us 14:29:51 cpn: Any reactions from anyone? 14:30:09 .. I think that would be quite welcome, and if we can attract contributors to help us 14:30:16 .. do that then it would be more likely to be successful. 14:30:22 .. Personally I'm supportive towards that. 14:30:37 .. Logistically it is easy to create task forces. 14:30:47 .. We just need a resolution in the meeting. 14:31:00 .. Practically we need a task force chair/moderator/facilitator. 14:31:13 .. Do you want to try to do this today or take it up offline? 14:31:43 Scope 14:32:14 Nigel: Suggest drafting something to cover scope, timescales. I propose to write something and come back with something more concrete 14:32:58 ... Please get in touch if you have ideas 14:34:31 Topic: AVS use cases 14:34:58 Song: Mr Zheng is from PCL, joining W3C. He presented to Chris and W3C staff at the AC meeting in Hangzhou 14:35:31 present+ Chris Seeger 14:36:44 subtopic: AVS Introduction 14:37:33 Jianhua: AVS has 100 members, it makes specifications for audio and video technologies 14:37:42 ... AVS3 video standard recently published 14:37:54 ... AVS is now working on AVS4, based on AI 14:38:16 ... AVS has developed over 20 years, published in China and as IEEE standards 14:38:29 ... In 2022, referenced by DVB 14:38:59 ... DVB specifications reference AVS3, media and smart media transport 14:40:04 ... Three years ago, combine AVS technology into DVB-I framework. AVS3 P2 video, +P6 media format. AVS multiview, AI stereoscopic video 14:40:58 ... In 2022 we did a pilot at the Paris Olympics, using SMT in the DVB framework, delivering content across screens: TV, STB, phone, tablet, XR glasses 14:41:19 ... One signal delivery, received across different terminal types 14:41:51 ... Launched verification testing for terminal presentations, and delivery on different frameworks synchronised on the terminals 14:42:33 ... We use SMT enabled interactive broadcasting. For multiview we have multiple camera interactions, select the camera angle to receive 14:43:06 ... This year in the Milano olympics we did another live streaming verification using this platform. This time we had 2 live channels and 12 non-live channels 14:43:13 ... We set up 7 types of terminal as receiver 14:43:34 ... China Media Group in Shenzhen 14:44:19 ... Verification for live and non-live streaming, and combined with content protection. Also AI enabled live caption translation 14:45:02 ... In IBC 2024 we set up a demo, and last year at DVB World we showed use with wearable devices 14:45:32 ... Free-view technology with 24 cameras at the live field, data compressed equivalent to the 4K signal 14:45:48 ... Users can change the view angle on the TV using their phone or remote control 14:47:00 ... Demo of Milan winter olympics. Three types of terminal, using the same UI. 4 channels where user can select 14:48:33 ... We want to build future TV experiences. Presentation across TV and other devices. Interactive appearance so user can change the viewpoint 14:48:42 ... We have AI technology to bring this interactive broadcasting 14:49:40 subtopic: Use case study: Volumetric video 14:49:59 Song: Additional use cases for TV and mobile 14:50:31 ... Emerging technology like volumetric video and MPEG MCVC, Using this for commercial applications in China 14:51:00 ... [Shows demo] 14:51:15 ... Mirroring between the TV and the small screen, controlled by hand gesture 14:53:00 subtopic: Use case: 2D and 3D conversion 14:53:56 Song: It's another 3D user experience. Uses low-end 3D glasses, but the processing and compute is in the set-top box and in the cloud. We can use native application or HbbTV, or MSE in the set top box even though there's still a performance gap. We're working on that 14:54:07 ... Uses VVC and DASH, and AVS and SMT for transport 14:54:29 subtopics: Observations 14:54:38 s/subtopics/subtopic/ 14:55:33 Song: Volumetric video frame interpolation. Denoising using AI. AI agents (ChatGPT, Claude, Doubao, Qwen, etc) evolving from text based to A/V multimodal 14:55:48 ... There could be higher demands on web platform AI capabilities 14:56:37 ... Neural networks replacing traditional codecs. WebCodecs has support for H.264/AV1/VP9 with browser encoder and decoder interfaces. Using the NN model codecs isn't ready yet 14:57:08 ... WebGPU supports parallel data processing 14:57:38 ... For volumetric video, recoridng information of object information in 3D space 14:58:07 ... Data traffic will be very high, up to 720 Mbps for 30 fps, so 20-30x 14:58:54 ... For real time interaction, the user wants gesture interaction with instant rendering, which is a challenge for set top boxes using HbbTV and MSE 14:59:57 ... 3D point clouds, we use semantic processing with the media. Neural network rendering using WebNN and NeuVV for high fidelity rendering 15:00:17 cpn: Wow, thank you, that's amazing! 15:01:09 Chris: Thank you for the presentation and thorough analysis 15:01:55 Rob: Regarding data rates, are you proposing this is all delivered then composed in the set top box? Broadcast all 24 channels, or does the user select which one and only stream that selection? 15:03:40 Song: Broadcasting all the signals would be expensive. The normal view angle is like traditional broadcast, then when there's a highlight, you can use the remote control to select. The baseline streaming is a typical HDR video. The server retrieves the different angle stream from the cloud. 15:04:17 nigel has joined #me 15:04:17 timeless has joined #me 15:04:17 gkatsev has joined #me 15:04:17 mattp has joined #me 15:04:56 ... In the reference example, they use 24 cameras to distribute the Games. Switching between angles may not be as smooth as expected, so use 36 streams or for important games with premium subscribers, use 72 cameras. 15:05:19 ... MSE has some performance limitations. So we recommend a native solution 15:05:50 nigel has joined #me 15:05:50 timeless has joined #me 15:05:50 gkatsev has joined #me 15:05:50 mattp has joined #me 15:06:12 Jianhua: The free view use cases uses 34 cameras in the live field, using a different technology. 15:06:17 q? 15:06:20 ack n 15:06:21 nigel, you wanted to talk about TT 15:07:57 nigel has joined #me 15:07:57 timeless has joined #me 15:07:57 gkatsev has joined #me 15:07:57 mattp has joined #me 15:09:37 Chris: Any WebCodecs requirements to bring to Media WG, or similar for WebGPU? 15:11:15 nigel has joined #me 15:11:15 timeless has joined #me 15:11:15 gkatsev has joined #me 15:11:15 mattp has joined #me 15:12:10 Song: The problem is that set top boxes are middle or low end devices, but the performance doesn't meet the requirement. I suggest we discuss the performance requirements 15:12:26 Chris: I remember the Cloud Edge Compute work in the Web & Networks IG 15:13:17 Song: We finished the design for that, but it didn't get adoption. The implementation chain is too long, hard to convince the broadcaster, CDN provider, and source of program to adopt 15:13:33 ... So if we're going to implement the technology we need to make the chain as short as possible 15:13:46 nigel has joined #me 15:13:46 timeless has joined #me 15:13:46 gkatsev has joined #me 15:13:46 mattp has joined #me 15:14:47 Chris: Next steps? Happy to use more meeting time. 15:15:05 nigel has joined #me 15:15:05 timeless has joined #me 15:15:05 gkatsev has joined #me 15:15:05 mattp has joined #me 15:16:41 Song: I plan to provide use cases for the AI media roadmap for W3C 15:16:53 Chris: I'll create a GitHub issue to collect use cases 15:17:26 Rob: Any proposal to tag content, add timed metadata, to identify the person on screen. e.g, athlete at sports events 15:20:33 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:20:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi 15:21:13 next meeting 7 July 15:22:18 rrsagent, make log public 15:22:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:22:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-minutes.html cpn 15:47:30 nigel has joined #me 15:47:30 timeless has joined #me 15:47:30 gkatsev has joined #me 15:47:30 mattp has joined #me 16:11:03 nigel has joined #me 16:11:51 Present+ Nigel_Megitt 16:11:53 rrsagent, make minutes 16:11:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-minutes.html nigel 16:50:21 klea has joined #me 17:04:14 regrets: Wolfgang 17:04:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:04:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/06/02-me-minutes.html cpn 18:03:18 cabanier has joined #me 18:27:03 Zakim has left #me 20:06:24 klea has joined #me