13:15:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
13:15:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/05/18-lws-irc
13:15:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:15:36 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), laurens
13:15:50 <laurens> meeting: LWS WG Meeting - Monday May 18, 2025
13:15:55 <laurens> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260518T100000/
13:16:07 <laurens> zakim, start meeting
13:16:07 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:16:09 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), laurens
13:16:50 <laurens> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:16:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/18-lws-minutes.html laurens
13:55:43 <ericP> ericP has joined #lws
13:55:58 <ericP> RRSAgent, start meeting
13:55:58 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', ericP.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:58:45 <ericP> zakim, start meeting
13:58:45 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:58:47 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ericP
13:59:15 <ericP> meeting: lws
13:59:24 <ericP> chair: ericP
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14:01:14 <gibsonf1> present+
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14:01:49 <laurens> chair: laurens
14:02:09 <jeremycaine> present+
14:02:20 <eBremer> present+
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14:02:39 <termontwouter> present+
14:02:40 <jeremycaine> scribe+
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14:04:10 <ericP> agenda+ Introduction and announcements
14:04:18 <ericP> agenda+ Terminology PR #153 discussion and vote
14:04:18 <ericP> agenda+ totalItems PR #157 discussion and vote
14:04:18 <ericP> agenda+ Notifications PR #161 discussion
14:04:18 <ericP> agenda+ Access Requests PR #106 discussion and vote
14:04:18 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/153 -> Pull Request 153 Refine terminology section (by acoburn)
14:04:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/157 -> Pull Request 157 Change totalItems from MUST to SHOULD (by ebremer)
14:04:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/161 -> Pull Request 161 feat(notifications): LWS Notifications base specification with Webhooks (by laurensdeb)
14:04:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/106 -> Pull Request 106 Add editors draft for LWS Access Requests and Access Grants (by acoburn)
14:04:19 <ericP> agenda+ Type Index PR #115 discussion
14:04:19 <ericP> agenda+ Additional open PRs <https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pulls>
14:04:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/115 -> Pull Request 115 add Type Index Section (by ebremer)
14:04:49 <ericP> agenda?
14:04:52 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:04:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introduction and announcements -- taken up [from ericP]
14:05:03 <jeremycaine> intros and annoucne ..
14:05:24 <pchampin> present+
14:05:25 <jeremycaine> propose to cancel Mon 2th call - any objections?
14:05:29 <bendm> bendm has joined #lws
14:05:48 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
14:05:53 <ryey> present+
14:05:54 <pchampin> s/propose/laurens: propose
14:06:17 <jeremycaine> laurens: cancel next mon mtg
14:06:40 <jeremycaine> ... samu joined at f2f wg
14:06:50 <langsamu> This is Samu
14:07:51 <jeremycaine> langsamu: work for ODI, prev Inrupt. will be implemting .net ref impl of LWS plus test suite for LWS
14:08:04 <laurens> topic: Test Suite update
14:08:11 <jeremycaine> laurens: add agenda item on test suite update
14:09:32 <jeremycaine> ericP: was q was whether to leave in same repo as rest of specs. if it does, then main repo gets npm updates - so move out into something like lws-contrib
14:09:43 <jeremycaine> ... then put test suite in there
14:10:32 <jeremycaine> ... leave manifest and test files in the main repo, but all javascript etc in the lws-contrib repo
14:10:42 <laurens> q?
14:11:16 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 2
14:11:16 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Terminology PR #153 discussion and vote -- taken up [from ericP]
14:11:45 <termontwouter> q+
14:11:48 <jeremycaine> laurens: agenda PR #153 -- refine terminology
14:11:48 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/153 -> Pull Request 153 Refine terminology section (by acoburn)
14:12:06 <jeremycaine> ... minor updates last mtg
14:12:16 <jeremycaine> ... any more additions, or move to vote?
14:12:21 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask about minor change
14:12:32 <laurens> ack termontwouter
14:12:53 <termontwouter> fred go first then
14:13:13 <laurens> ack gibsonf
14:13:13 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask about minor change
14:14:48 <jeremycaine> gibsonf1: comment on 'another resource' in PR .. change to 'a' -
14:14:54 <jeremycaine> laurens: should have been resolved in gh ... will look in to that
14:15:42 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: reframe definitions in terms of representations rather than resources - i opened a PR
14:15:59 <jeremycaine> laurens: prefer to merge today and then deal with latests PRs after
14:16:08 <jeremycaine> ... and then move to vote today
14:16:22 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: ok agree
14:17:25 <jeremycaine> laurens: will fix gh re: 'a resource'
14:18:00 <jeremycaine> ... propose go to vote
14:18:18 <ericP> PROPOSE: merge PR #153
14:18:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/153 -> Pull Request 153 Refine terminology section (by acoburn)
14:18:23 <gibsonf1> +1
14:18:26 <jeremycaine> +1
14:18:26 <ericP> +1
14:18:29 <eBremer> +1
14:18:30 <laurens> +1
14:18:31 <pchampin> +1
14:18:33 <ryey> +1
14:18:36 <langsamu> +0
14:18:37 <Rbreitman> +0
14:18:42 <termontwouter> +1
14:18:44 <bendm> +1
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14:18:54 <ericP> RESOLVED: merge PR #153
14:18:55 <jeswr> present+
14:19:05 <Rbreitman> present+
14:19:17 <laurens> zakim, next agendum
14:19:17 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introduction and announcements -- taken up [from ericP]
14:19:32 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:19:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- totalItems PR #157 discussion and vote -- taken up [from ericP]
14:19:39 <termontwouter> s+i opened a PR+i opened PR https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/163
14:19:40 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/163 -> CLOSED Pull Request 163 Define aux & meta in terms of representations (by termontwouter)
14:19:47 <pchampin> s/agendum 1 -- Introduction and announcements -- taken up [from ericP]/
14:20:21 <pchampin> i|opened PR|https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/163
14:20:34 <laurens> q?
14:20:37 <laurens> PROPOSE: Merge PR #157
14:20:38 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/157 -> Pull Request 157 Change totalItems from MUST to SHOULD (by ebremer)
14:20:43 <gibsonf1> +1
14:20:44 <eBremer> +1
14:20:44 <jeremycaine> eBremer: marked all SHOULDS
14:20:48 <jeremycaine> +1
14:20:48 <ericP> +1
14:20:48 <laurens> +1
14:20:55 <Rbreitman> +0
14:20:56 <langsamu> +0
14:21:00 <bendm> +1
14:21:01 <pchampin> +1
14:21:06 <ryey> +0.5 (not exactly sure about the implications to virtual resources, but generally seems fine)
14:21:10 <laurens> RESOLVED: Merge PR #157
14:21:55 <jeremycaine> laurens: discuss virtual resource issue at end of mtg
14:21:58 <ryey> Indeed, that's why my vote is a plus :)
14:21:58 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:21:58 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Notifications PR #161 discussion -- taken up [from ericP]
14:22:20 <laurens> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/129
14:22:20 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/129 -> CLOSED Pull Request 129 feat(notifications): Introduce the LWS notifications specification as an optional service (by laurensdeb)
14:23:12 <jeremycaine> laurens: PR #161 action in f2f mtg
14:23:12 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/161 -> Pull Request 161 feat(notifications): LWS Notifications base specification with Webhooks (by laurensdeb)
14:24:19 <jeremycaine> ... no vote today, please review
14:24:45 <jeremycaine> ... move to vote on june 1st mtg
14:25:10 <jeremycaine> ... PR #162 intro draft for web socket and SSE ,, but requires discussion with elf-pavlik
14:25:10 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/162 -> Pull Request 162 feat(notifications): Add WebSocket and Server-Sent Event channels (by laurensdeb)
14:25:23 <laurens> q?
14:25:38 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 5
14:25:38 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Access Requests PR #106 discussion and vote -- taken up [from ericP]
14:26:04 <jeremycaine> laurens: PR #106 .. discussed numerous times, minor changes last week
14:26:05 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/106 -> Pull Request 106 Add editors draft for LWS Access Requests and Access Grants (by acoburn)
14:26:25 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask about viewing it
14:26:56 <jeremycaine> gibsonf1: trying to preview - got a 404 earlier
14:27:35 <jeremycaine> laurens: preview links work - caching issue?
14:29:32 <jeremycaine> ... needs gh investigate
14:29:44 <jeremycaine> ... cannot move to merge today
14:30:30 <jeremycaine> ... postpone vote
14:30:48 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 6
14:30:48 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Type Index PR #115 discussion -- taken up [from ericP]
14:30:59 <jeremycaine> laurens: PR #115
14:30:59 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/115 -> Pull Request 115 add Type Index Section (by ebremer)
14:31:13 <jeremycaine> eBremer: needs a few more days
14:31:34 <jeremycaine> laurens: PR #160 pchampin
14:31:35 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/160 -> Pull Request 160 move former editors to Acknowledgement section (by pchampin) [editorial]
14:31:36 <laurens> topic: PR #160 - Former editors section
14:32:27 <jeremycaine> pchampin: this spec is not an evolution of Solid - but inspired by - therefore ack the former editors
14:33:29 <jeremycaine> ... doesn't hurt to leave, but it's ready to merge - could merge in a week time; don't need to wait for next mtg
14:33:35 <gibsonf1> +1
14:33:38 <jeremycaine> +1
14:33:38 <laurens> +1
14:33:40 <eBremer> +1
14:33:43 <termontwouter> +1
14:34:31 <ericP> PROPOSE: ask pchampin to merge 160 in one week barring objection in the github issue
14:34:37 <laurens> +1
14:34:42 <gibsonf1> +1
14:34:43 <ericP> +1
14:34:45 <jeremycaine> 1
14:34:48 <jeremycaine> +1
14:34:52 <eBremer> +1
14:35:00 <pchampin> +1
14:35:02 <termontwouter> +1
14:35:07 <ericP> RESOLVED: ask pchampin to merge 160 in one week barring objection in the github issue
14:35:35 <ericP> topic: PR #154
14:35:35 <laurens> topic: PR #154 - Rename container section to 'Containers'
14:35:35 <gb> s|#154|-> Pull Request 154 Rename container section to 'Containers' (by acoburn) [editorial] https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/154
14:35:59 <jeremycaine> laurens: propose vote
14:36:02 <laurens> PROPOSE: To merge PR #154
14:36:05 <laurens> +1
14:36:06 <termontwouter> +1
14:36:06 <ryey> +1
14:36:07 <ericP> +1
14:36:07 <jeremycaine> +1
14:36:08 <pchampin> +1
14:36:08 <bendm> +1
14:36:09 <ryey> +1
14:36:10 <gibsonf1> +1
14:36:10 <eBremer> +1
14:36:12 <Rbreitman> +0
14:36:23 <laurens> RESOLVED: To merge PR #154
14:36:36 <laurens> zakim, take up agendum 7
14:36:36 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Additional open PRs <https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pulls> -- taken up [from ericP]
14:37:04 <laurens> scribe+
14:37:25 <laurens> jeremycaine: As discussed at F2F meeting I wrote the introduction section in PR #158
14:37:25 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/158 -> Pull Request 158 Add introduction section (by jeremycaine)
14:37:33 <laurens> ... That is ready for review.
14:37:41 <laurens> ... Diagrams are in C4 syntax as platform independent models.
14:38:36 <laurens> ... The diagrams are in PR #159.
14:38:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/159 -> Pull Request 159 Add scope diagrams section with C4 Level 1 and Level 2 diagrams (by jeremycaine)
14:38:42 <laurens> scribe-
14:38:47 <jeremycaine> scribe+
14:38:58 <jeremycaine> laurens: any other PRs need discuss?
14:39:25 <termontwouter> q+
14:39:40 <laurens> ack gibsonf
14:39:40 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask about viewing it
14:39:45 <laurens> ack termontwouter
14:40:19 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: PR got closed PR #163 .. so cannot retarget to main branch
14:40:20 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/163 -> CLOSED Pull Request 163 Define aux & meta in terms of representations (by termontwouter)
14:40:49 <jeremycaine> laurens: re-open pls termontwouter
14:42:37 <laurens> q?
14:42:53 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: will check on impact on spec
14:43:14 <gibsonf1> q+
14:43:20 <laurens> ack gibsonf
14:43:50 <jeremycaine> gibsonf1: we are effectively specifying representations already ..
14:44:01 <jeremycaine> ... so use representation instead of resource
14:44:07 <termontwouter> q+
14:44:11 <jeremycaine> laurens: not convinced we can do that everywhere
14:44:12 <jeremycaine> q+
14:44:31 <jeremycaine> ... we still need operations on resources
14:44:34 <laurens> ack termontwouter
14:44:42 <pchampin> +1 laurens
14:44:54 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: PR is only targeting metadata and auxiliary
14:45:00 <laurens> ack jeremycaine
14:45:01 <laurens> scribe+
14:45:31 <laurens> jeremycaine: I raised an issue #155 on the virtual resource topic
14:45:32 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/155 -> Issue 155 What is the scope of the LWS protocol and this has bearing on whether we need Virtual Resource (by jeremycaine)
14:45:50 <laurens> ... I think if we had some clear example of various POST and GET requests on containers and data resources that might point
14:46:05 <laurens> ... at external programs that might flesh out these attributes of the representations.
14:46:34 <termontwouter> q+
14:46:46 <laurens> ... The issue on definitions and virtual resources might follow from getting the scope of the LWS server clear.
14:46:49 <jeremycaine> scribe+
14:46:52 <laurens> scribe-
14:46:55 <laurens> ack termontwouter
14:47:16 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: point jeremycaine to issue #116
14:47:16 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/116 -> Issue 116 Abstract 'containers' as Link Set representations of arbitrary relational metadata (by termontwouter)
14:47:45 <jeremycaine> ... might be some examples here to help with issue #155
14:47:56 <laurens> q?
14:48:31 <jeremycaine> laurens: virtual resource - first do intro and diagrams .. then we get to virtual resource et al
14:48:49 <jeremycaine> q+
14:49:09 <laurens> ack jeremycaine
14:49:13 <laurens> scribe+
14:49:28 <laurens> jeremycaine: I didn't quite get the narrative on virtual resources before.
14:49:52 <laurens> ... If we clarify the scope of the server well, then the virtual resource part might make more sense.
14:49:52 <jeremycaine> scribe+
14:49:56 <laurens> scribe-
14:50:16 <jeremycaine> laurens: AOB?
14:50:17 <ryey> q+
14:50:31 <laurens> ack ryey
14:50:32 <termontwouter> q+
14:50:59 <jeremycaine> ryey: q. was the new terminology section merged?
14:51:15 <jeremycaine> laurens: PR #153 was merged - now in main branch
14:51:15 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/153 -> MERGED Pull Request 153 Refine terminology section (by acoburn)
14:51:32 <laurens> ack termontwouter
14:51:38 <jeremycaine> ... so can do new terminology PRs now
14:52:02 <jeremycaine> termontwouter: cannot see jeremycaine diagrams
14:52:44 <jeremycaine> laurens: will look at svg display
14:52:44 <laurens> q?
14:53:21 <jeremycaine> laurens: can close early. please look at open PRs raised by jeremycaine. in two weeks time - review typed index
14:53:25 <jeremycaine> ... and move to vote
14:53:34 <jeremycaine> ... and access grants
14:53:46 <jeremycaine> ... next week cancel, see june 1st
14:54:22 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:54:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/18-lws-minutes.html pchampin
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