12:48:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #matf
12:48:13 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/05/13-matf-irc
12:48:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:48:14 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Joe_Humbert
12:48:30 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, this is MATF May 13, 2026
12:48:30 <Zakim> got it, Joe_Humbert
12:48:48 <Joe_Humbert> Meeting: MATF May 13, 2026
12:48:51 <Joe_Humbert> chair+
12:49:16 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 2.4.2 Page Titled updated proposal and Pull Request
12:49:36 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 3.1.1 Language of Page updated proposal and Pull Request
12:50:06 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 2.5.3 Label in Name updated proposal and Pull Request
12:50:29 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 2.5.7 Dragging Movements updated proposal and Pull Request
12:50:44 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ Software layer definitions
12:51:22 <Joe_Humbert> agenda+ 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum)
12:51:33 <Joe_Humbert> zaxkim, agenda?
12:51:36 <Joe_Humbert> zakim, agenda?
12:51:36 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
12:51:37 <Zakim> 1. 2.4.2 Page Titled updated proposal and Pull Request [from Joe_Humbert]
12:51:37 <Zakim> 2. 3.1.1 Language of Page updated proposal and Pull Request [from Joe_Humbert]
12:51:37 <Zakim> 3. 2.5.3 Label in Name updated proposal and Pull Request [from Joe_Humbert]
12:51:37 <Zakim> 4. 2.5.7 Dragging Movements updated proposal and Pull Request [from Joe_Humbert]
12:51:38 <Zakim> 5. Software layer definitions [from Joe_Humbert]
12:51:38 <Zakim> 6. 2.5.8 Target Size (Minimum) [from Joe_Humbert]
12:52:01 <Joe_Humbert> regrets+ Quintin Balsdon
12:52:20 <Joe_Humbert> regrets+ Tim Gravemaker
12:52:37 <Joe_Humbert> regrets+ Jan Jaap de Groot
13:01:45 <sam-estoesta> sam-estoesta has joined #matf
13:02:10 <shoobe01> shoobe01 has joined #matf
13:02:21 <sam-estoesta> Present+
13:02:44 <shoobe01> present+
13:04:58 <sam-estoesta> Apologies as I am rather new to the TF. Is there a set quorum that needs to be reached?
13:05:54 <Tanya> Tanya has joined #matf
13:06:03 <Tanya> present+
13:06:08 <tayef> tayef has joined #matf
13:06:41 <Joe_Humbert> scribe: sam-estoesta
13:07:45 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:07:45 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- 2.4.2 Page Titled updated proposal and Pull Request -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:07:56 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/9#issuecomment-4439265319
13:08:08 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/288
13:10:16 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: taking the role of the chair. 2.4.2 discussions focused on definitions, the feasibility of visible page titles, and how titles can be supplied. Updated proposal now for disucssion.
13:12:16 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: requested update based on the discussions, suggested that we wait on any decisions until this update has been merged.
13:14:46 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:14:46 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- 3.1.1 Language of Page updated proposal and Pull Request -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:15:05 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: Requests TF members to thumb up if they are okay with the draft. Joe to put forward a new pull request.
13:15:27 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: For 3.1.1 requested update based on the discussions, suggested that we wait on any decisions until this update has been merged.
13:16:40 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/14
13:17:02 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: highlighted updates, small changes based on the discussions, inclusive of the application to the platform level
13:18:04 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: For 3.1.1., requests TF members to thumb up if they are okay with the draft. Joe to submit a new pull request.
13:19:18 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: will recreate two new PR for 2.4.2. and 3.1.1. and will share in the MATF Slack
13:19:46 <Joe_Humbert> Action: Tanya will recreate two new PR for 2.4.2. and 3.1.1. and will share in the MATF Slack
13:20:16 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:20:16 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- 2.5.3 Label in Name updated proposal and Pull Request -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:20:18 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/39#issuecomment-4439034439
13:25:26 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/223/changes
13:25:41 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: 2.5.3. had limited updates in April. Discussions focuses on grouped elements, how hints (user turned on hints vs hints turned off for ATs). There were two polls (https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/39#issuecomment-4438614022). Based on the results of the polls, JJ updated the proposal and has a PR for the new proposed text. This
13:25:41 <sam-estoesta> reflects discussions on the accessible name, whether all visible text needs to be included or could it be included in other accessibility attributes.
13:27:56 <Joe_Humbert> https://deploy-preview-223--wcag2mobile.netlify.app/#success-criterion-2-5-3-label-in-name
13:30:20 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: no discussion, moves to reviewing the current PR. Generated a new preview. Directs MATF member to submit a review using the options available through the Submit Review functionality in GitHub.
13:30:51 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:30:51 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- 2.5.7 Dragging Movements updated proposal and Pull Request -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:31:15 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/53#issuecomment-4439173903
13:36:11 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: 2.5.7 discussion on the confusion about dragging vs pointer events, concerns on the term single pointer. Single pointer decided to stay as it is inherited from WCAG to ICT, WCAG 2.2. but discussion led to the suggestion to have a note to clarify. Proposal is to drop the original Note 1 and Note 2, keep Note 3 and 4 (which would become
13:36:12 <sam-estoesta> Note 1 and 2). Suggestion to clarify single pointer;  to keep consistent with other success criteria, single pointer to link to definition.
13:37:48 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/286
13:40:24 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: reads the new 2.5.7 proposal and invites discussion. No discussion. moves to reviewing the current PR. Generated a new preview. Notes that there is a broken hyperlink as there a missing link for the definition for the underlying platform software, as we are still need to approve the definition. Directs MATF member to submit a review
13:40:24 <sam-estoesta> using the options available through the Submit Review functionality in GitHub.
13:42:06 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: Will need a minor update. We can merge the link in the future as soon as the definition has been approved.
13:42:30 <Joe_Humbert> move to next agendum
13:42:30 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Software layer definitions -- taken up [from Joe_Humbert]
13:42:41 <shoobe01> https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVGCgwkGY=/?moveToWidget=3458764670186371414&cot=14
13:43:53 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/issues/270#issuecomment-4284139543
13:45:39 <sam-estoesta> shoobe01: Worked on the Miro with Rob. Utilized layers to visualize; the colours are meaningless. Will use a different tool for the final version with colour specified to each layer. Final diagram will be simple with just the layer with text definitions and links.
13:46:59 <Tanya> q+
13:47:16 <Joe_Humbert> ack Tanya
13:47:45 <sam-estoesta> shoobe01: trying to make the content relevant and clear to consumers of the document and app builders, without being too explicitly accurate. There are two open issues: should the user be the top layer or should content be above the user? Currently, user is at the top.
13:48:38 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: Is the mobile application that is being built fall under the definition of user agent?
13:50:13 <sam-estoesta> shoobe01: We consider a browser to be the user agent since we're extending outside of browsers to native applications. It's like the same thing that for non-web content inside of an application. the user agent is the interpretive layer for that content.
13:51:18 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: raises that that this would out of scope of WCAG,a nd would fall under the User Agent Accessibility Guideline.
13:51:49 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: This would mean that significant portions of the WCAG guidelines wouldn't apply to it
13:53:05 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: Yes, as the user could be in control of how they build their mobile apps. If we say that an application is a user agent, there would be difficulties in interpreting the gudiance.
13:54:21 <sam-estoesta> shoobe01: Took direct notes in the Miro. Maybe user agent is the wrong label for the layer.
13:55:52 <sam-estoesta> shoobe01: Other open issues is on the definitions for assistive hardware or software. Are typical users going to consider the device as the whole package or the processor only? Keyboards, etc.
13:56:59 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: IMO, don't think most users would consider an external keyboard
13:56:59 <sam-estoesta> shoobe01: Yes, but at point do we change from external keyboard being accessory to system? We just need a defintion.
13:57:08 <Tanya> q+
13:57:28 <Joe_Humbert> ack Tanya
13:57:53 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: tasks the MATF to comment in the Miro board or in the GitHub
13:58:31 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/288/changes
13:58:56 <Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/matf/pull/287/changes
13:59:07 <sam-estoesta> Tanya: updated 2.4.2 and 3.1.1. github issues
13:59:40 <sam-estoesta> joe_Humbert: tasks MATF members to review 2.4.2 and 3.1.1.
14:00:01 <sam-estoesta> Meeting ended at 9:59 am ET
14:00:11 <Joe_Humbert> thank you sam-estoesta
14:00:20 <sam-estoesta> Happy to scribe!
14:00:22 <Joe_Humbert> Zakim, list participants
14:00:22 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been sam-estoesta, shoobe, Tanya
14:00:46 <Joe_Humbert> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/13-matf-minutes.html Joe_Humbert
14:01:44 <Joe_Humbert> rrsagent, bye
14:01:44 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/05/13-matf-actions.rdf :
14:01:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tanya will recreate two new PR for 2.4.2. and 3.1.1. and will share in the MATF Slack [1]
14:01:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/05/13-matf-irc#T13-19-46