13:42:14 RRSAgent has joined #lws 13:42:19 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-irc 13:42:19 Zakim has joined #lws 13:42:55 acoburn has changed the topic to: Linked Web Storage WG - 2026-05-11 - https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260511T100000/ 13:43:04 zakim, start meeting 13:43:04 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:43:06 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn 13:43:18 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260511T100000/#agenda 13:43:18 clear agenda 13:43:18 agenda+ Introductions & Announcements 13:43:18 agenda+ Terminology PR #153 13:43:18 agenda+ totalItems PR #157 13:43:18 agenda+ Test Suite PR #145 13:43:20 agenda+ Upcoming votes 13:43:22 agenda+ Follow-up from Face-to-Face meeting 13:43:25 agenda+ Open Issues 13:43:35 meeting: Linked Web Storage 13:43:51 rrsagent, make minutes 13:43:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html acoburn 13:44:00 chair: acoburn 13:44:22 previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-minutes.html 13:44:34 next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/05/18-lws-minutes.html 13:45:57 acoburn has joined #lws 13:45:58 acoburn9 has joined #lws 13:46:37 agenda? 13:57:39 laurens has joined #lws 13:57:44 present+ 13:57:51 acoburn has joined #lws 13:57:51 present+ 13:58:02 present+ 13:58:08 rrsagent, make minutes 13:58:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html acoburn 13:58:32 eBremer has joined #lws 13:58:41 jeremycaine has joined #lws 13:58:48 present+ 13:59:02 acoburn has joined #lws 13:59:41 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:00:22 termontwouter has joined #lws 14:00:41 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:00:50 present+ 14:00:55 present+ 14:01:57 present+ 14:02:02 AZ has joined #lws 14:02:44 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:03:16 present+ 14:04:16 scribe+ 14:04:32 zakim, open agendum 1 14:04:32 agendum 1 -- Introductions & Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:04:56 acoburn: 2 weeks ago, we had a f2f meeting that was hugely successful 14:05:22 ... we have a few new people can you introduce yourselves? 14:06:08 roberto: I am Roberto Breitman, I'm Brasilian living in Belgium 14:06:15 ... I've been in Solid for a while 14:06:25 present+ roberto 14:06:25 ... my background is in computer science 14:07:13 ericP has joined #lws 14:07:13 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:07:13 AZ has joined #lws 14:07:13 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:07:13 termontwouter has joined #lws 14:07:13 acoburn has joined #lws 14:07:13 jeremycaine has joined #lws 14:07:13 eBremer has joined #lws 14:07:13 laurens has joined #lws 14:08:26 bendm has joined #lws 14:08:26 Rbreitman9 has joined #lws 14:08:26 jeswr has joined #lws 14:08:26 ericP has joined #lws 14:08:26 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:08:26 AZ has joined #lws 14:08:26 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:08:26 termontwouter has joined #lws 14:08:26 acoburn has joined #lws 14:08:26 jeremycaine has joined #lws 14:08:26 eBremer has joined #lws 14:08:26 laurens has joined #lws 14:09:51 bendm has joined #lws 14:09:51 Rbreitman9 has joined #lws 14:09:51 jeswr has joined #lws 14:09:51 ericP has joined #lws 14:09:51 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:09:51 AZ has joined #lws 14:09:51 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:09:51 termontwouter has joined #lws 14:09:51 acoburn has joined #lws 14:09:51 jeremycaine has joined #lws 14:09:51 eBremer has joined #lws 14:09:51 laurens has joined #lws Topic: Terminology PR #153 14:10:10 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/153 14:10:10 ... I updated the document on terminology 14:10:20 ... order alphabetically the terms 14:10:44 ... added cross links from terms to terms 14:11:02 ... all otehr documents should link terminology to this document 14:11:10 s/otehr/other 14:11:28 ryey has joined #lws 14:11:28 bendm has joined #lws 14:11:28 Rbreitman9 has joined #lws 14:11:28 jeswr has joined #lws 14:11:28 ericP has joined #lws 14:11:28 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:11:28 AZ has joined #lws 14:11:28 gibsonf1 has joined #lws 14:11:28 termontwouter has joined #lws 14:11:28 acoburn has joined #lws 14:11:28 jeremycaine has joined #lws 14:11:28 eBremer has joined #lws 14:11:28 laurens has joined #lws 14:11:28 present+ 14:11:38 ... pchampin added a few entries 14:11:58 ... you can use the diff view to see what changed 14:12:14 ... I removed some empty sections 14:12:27 TallTed has joined #lws 14:12:42 ... there were no definition for some terms, they were removed 14:12:48 q? 14:12:54 ... that's what the PR does 14:12:57 q+ 14:13:07 ... can we move to a vote? 14:13:31 jeremycaine: I did raise an issue on an entry 14:13:58 ... we should create an entry for data resource 14:14:43 ... maybe the current spec is ok but I'm not enough an expert but I had a concern 14:15:27 ack next 14:15:43 present+ 14:15:45 q+ 14:15:47 q? 14:15:51 termontwouter: the general PR is quite good but have a question on metadata resource 14:16:01 ... we left it out then readded it 14:16:17 q+ 14:16:25 ... I'm not sure if the PR capture correctly the definition 14:16:43 acoburn: metadata resource needs additional work 14:16:52 ... maybe we can leave it out for the moment 14:17:14 ... or merge it like this and change later 14:17:21 I think we should go with the vote for the terminology - but per my comments in issue 155 I think we need to see more concrete examples of Data Resource lifecycle to cater for different actual implementations of the actual underlying URI object 14:17:25 q? 14:17:30 ack next 14:17:32 termontwouter: either way, if you keep it like this, I can propose a refinement 14:17:37 apologie for not following IRC protocol 14:17:45 TallTed: few things 14:18:02 ... first, I am not ready to vote because I was not aware their would be a vote 14:18:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html TallTed 14:18:18 ... I will be offline next week (memorial day in US) 14:18:37 ... second, word of caution for new members coming from Solid group 14:18:45 ... this is *not* Solid WG 14:19:08 ... although it deals with overlapping pieces with Solid 14:19:38 ... this group is on Linked Web Sotrage so it is more focused 14:20:29 ... last, regarding leaving out a term, I would not like leaving or deleting things out if this is something that must be fixed for later 14:21:08 q+ 14:21:10 acoburn: were you referring to the empty sections that were deleting or the metadata resource definition 14:21:24 q? 14:21:31 ack next 14:21:38 TallTed: I was refering to metadata resource but the others are also concerned 14:22:41 q+ 14:22:47 gibsonf1: the metadata resource describes another LWS resource 14:23:05 ... just replace "another" with "a" 14:23:34 ... and for the definition of "resource" the definition is not quite accurate 14:23:40 q+ 14:23:42 grammarian note -- replace "another" with **"an"**, not "a" 14:23:44 q+ 14:24:00 ack pchampin 14:24:05 ... a URI is an interface to a resource 14:24:28 pchampin: the wording about URI is taken from architecture of the WWW 14:24:47 ... the current wording does not contradict the point you make 14:25:19 q? 14:25:21 q- 14:25:21 ... I would agree it is interfaced because with an information resource it's not just an identifier but an entry point to the resource 14:25:29 ack next 14:25:36 gibsonf1: ok understood 14:26:23 termontwouter: we could rephrase the metadata and auxiliary definitions to better accomodate gibsonf1's point 14:26:26 ack next 14:26:30 ... this could be done in the future though 14:26:46 q+ to ask about principal resource 14:26:56 ack next 14:26:57 gibsonf, you wanted to ask about principal resource 14:27:10 q++ 14:27:15 gibsonf1: I noticed "principled resource", do we need that? 14:27:16 qq+ 14:27:20 q- + 14:27:39 ... can you explain why we need it? 14:27:42 ack next 14:27:43 pchampin, you wanted to react to gibsonf 14:27:43 q? 14:28:06 pchampin: I added this text, I'm not strongly advocating this term 14:28:11 q+ to raise a meta point, and to raise a workflow issue 14:28:36 in the London meeting we used 'primary' 14:28:38 ... it was useful to have a name for the inverse relation of "auxiiliary resource" 14:28:55 q+ 14:29:37 gibsonf1: it seems it would be good enough to have the notion of auxiliary resource 14:30:25 pchampin: I do not say it is a necessary term but in some definitions, it is cumbersome to explain thing without it 14:30:59 +1 for primary 14:31:16 q? 14:31:20 q- 14:31:23 gibsonf1: "primary" seems better than "principled" 14:31:45 acoburn: we need to have more conversation on this, let us not vote on it today 14:31:45 s/principled/principal 14:32:14 ack next 14:32:15 TallTed, you wanted to raise a meta point, and to raise a workflow issue 14:32:18 gibsonf1, I thought about "parent", but decided against it to avoid confusion with containment relationship 14:32:47 TallTed: regarding this definition, it is not obvious that this is an addition on this PR 14:33:13 q? 14:34:38 zakim, open agendum 3 14:34:38 agendum 3 -- totalItems PR #157 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:35:00 ... this is another PR from the conversation had in the f2f meeting 14:35:21 ... we're not going to vote this week on it, but I'd like to highlight it 14:35:44 q+ 14:36:07 eBremer: about counting the number of items in a container 14:36:21 ack next 14:36:42 ... it can be very difficult to have an acurrate count so it should not be a "MUST" 14:37:02 q+ 14:37:05 ack next 14:37:33 pchampin: "SHOULD" means "do it unless you have a very good reason not to" 14:37:54 ... it is less strict than MUST but still quite strong 14:38:11 zakim, open agendum 4 14:38:11 agendum 4 -- Test Suite PR #145 -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:39:12 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/145 14:39:13 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/145 -> Pull Request 145 test: create strawman test suite (by ericprud) 14:38:24 acoburn: this PR has to do with the test suite 14:38:40 ... opened by Eric a few weeks ago 14:38:42 q+ 14:38:48 ... again, we can vote on it next week 14:39:58 ericP: the first draft of the test suite wqs there to capture ....[breaking up a bit] 14:40:08 i|this is another PR from| https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/157 14:40:22 ... we have to test the mechanism for .... 14:40:36 ... I made something with the MANIFEST 14:41:02 ... it can be merged without interacting with other documents 14:41:21 ... please take a look at the MANIFEST, 14:41:59 s/offline next week (memorial day/offline next two Mondays, May 18 and 25 (25, last Monday in May, is Memorial Day 14:42:06 ... I try to work on it to ... but that's pretty optional 14:42:45 ack next 14:43:06 laurens: one question, do we want the test suite to live in the same LWS protocol repo 14:43:22 ... should we make another repo for this? 14:43:36 q+ 14:43:42 ack next 14:43:57 pchampin: a separate repo would be ok 14:44:15 ... both practices exist in W3C WGs 14:44:47 ... I would be in favour of it, but it's up to the group 14:45:07 +1 14:45:08 acoburn: I'm also in favor of this 14:45:49 ... ???, who was at the f2f will be working on the test suite 14:46:09 q? 14:46:22 s/???/Samu Lang/ 14:46:40 laurens: I will reach out to Samu 14:47:36 zakim, open agendum 5 14:47:36 agendum 5 -- Upcoming votes -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:47:46 acoburn: we will vote on this next week but if this goes to another directory, we may not approve the PR directly 14:48:07 ... I'll do some work on access requests and access rights 14:48:23 q+ 14:48:29 ack next 14:48:47 ... what else could we discuss/vote next week 14:49:26 q+ to ask about whether Access Requests should be an independent document or integrated into core 14:49:39 laurens: I have a PR open for quite some time that we could split in 2 14:50:09 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/129 14:50:10 https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/129 -> Pull Request 129 feat(notifications): Introduce the LWS notifications specification as an optional service (by laurensdeb) 14:50:50 acoburn: another point is the type index 14:50:57 eBremer: will work on it next week 14:51:21 acoburn: some of the terminology items have to wait for the terminology to be merged 14:51:34 .. e.g., virtual resources 14:51:45 ... whether it is in scope is questionable 14:51:50 Sure. I'm drafting it today. Will try to get it out today, or Thursday. 14:52:20 ... regarding auxiliary resources, wouter has some ideas? 14:52:32 termontwouter: I can provide something soon 14:52:47 acoburn: what else would you all like to be participating in? 14:53:28 there is a document for tracking the tasks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wiAg8UtF0i73bdMD3TBhC9nFdYLYkobBCbCGSF6XXn0/edit?gid=0#gid=0 14:53:40 q+ 14:53:45 ack next 14:53:46 acoburn, you wanted to ask about whether Access Requests should be an independent document or integrated into core 14:53:55 later this week I should have access to PC and will follow up on notifications via streaming http responses 14:54:55 elf-pavlik has joined #lws 14:55:04 jeremycaine: I can help but I need to know better about the mechanics of the github repo usage 14:55:24 acoburn: the process is usually to open issues and discuss on github 14:55:50 ... occassionally we work on Google docs and then we open PRs, and discuss, and then eventually merge 14:56:17 acoburn: any other business? 14:56:47 TallTed: decisions made next week should be provisional because I'll be away 14:56:57 FWIW, group decisions made on calls are always provisional, I believe. 14:56:59 acoburn: so I will 14:57:11 rrsagent, make minutes 14:57:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html acoburn 14:57:19 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:57:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html pchampin 14:58:35 s/... I updated the document on terminology/acoburn: I updated the document on terminology/ 14:58:44 "decisions made on calls are always provisional" -- yes, for the following 7 days, according to typical process (I don't know whether this is codified in w3process or the Guide). 14:59:00 rrsagent, make minutes 14:59:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html acoburn present+ ericP