16:03:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:03:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-irc
16:03:59 <pfps> present+
16:04:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-star
16:04:29 <TallTed> meeting: RDF & SPARQL WG meeting
16:04:37 <TallTed> chair: j22
16:04:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:05:06 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:05:28 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS
16:05:38 <TallTed> present+ lisp, j22, niklasl, TallTed, pfps, AndyS
16:05:48 <gtw> present+
16:05:49 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
16:06:04 <AndyS> j22: an RDF 1.2 parser can produce different triples to an RDF 1.2 parser.
16:06:26 <TallTed> present+ doerthe
16:06:28 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86
16:06:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86 -> Issue 86 Evolving 1.2 triple term features : rdf:parseType, rdf:annotation (by afs) [ms:CR]
16:06:37 <j22>  https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86
16:07:03 <AndyS> AndyS: Write-up of the different issues to be addressed
16:07:08 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/30-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:07:08 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/05/14-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:07:40 <AndyS> j22: If the top element has rdf:version or its:version, then its a parse error
16:07:42 <AndyS> q+
16:07:45 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20260507T120000/
16:07:45 <agendabot> TallTed, sorry, I did not recognize any agenda in https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20260507T120000/
16:07:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:08:28 <TallTed> regrets+ ora, ktk
16:08:32 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-xml/#RDF
16:08:52 <AndyS> which says "attributes == set())"
16:09:25 <tl> present+
16:10:39 <AndyS> ack me
16:11:25 <TallTed> present+ tpt
16:11:31 <AndyS> present+
16:11:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:11:51 <AndyS> j22: fail fast if rdf:version on rdf:RDF
16:13:58 <gtw> q+
16:14:09 <j22> ack gtw
16:14:22 <niklasl> q+
16:14:45 <AndyS> gtw: Does anyone know of arbitrary of rdf:parseType="xxxx" in the wild?
16:16:20 <j22> AndyS: suggest a standard used for buildings in europe.
16:18:06 <niklasl> https://www.w3.org/2009/07/NamedGraph.html proposed  rdf:parseType="GraphLiteral"
16:18:28 <niklasl> (don't know if anyone ever used that though)
16:19:03 <j22> ack niklasl
16:21:28 <AndyS> niklasl: rdflib accepts (and ignores) attributes on rdf:RDF
16:21:52 <AndyS> Jena raises an error.
16:22:46 <AndyS> niklasl: and rdf:annotation would be property attributes i.e. triples.
16:23:09 <niklasl> Within RDF/XML documents it is not permitted to use XML namespaces whose namespace name is the RDF namespace IRI concatenated with additional characters.
16:23:29 <AndyS> ... also a way is (I do not advocate it)
16:23:34 <AndyS> q+
16:24:18 <niklasl> https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf12-xml/#section-Namespace
16:24:25 <AndyS> q-
16:24:32 <AndyS> q+
16:24:34 <j22> ack AndyS
16:27:28 <AndyS> AndyS: If RDF/XMl is not streamble, then we can require rdf:version on the top element. But may be impactful.
16:29:42 <AndyS> tpt: My current feeling is that optional rdf:version is the way to go.
16:30:10 <AndyS> s!RDF/XMl!RDF/XML!
16:30:15 <niklasl> q+
16:30:31 <AndyS> j22: Also the its:version, its:dir
16:31:16 <j22> ack niklasl
16:31:23 <AndyS> tpt: maybe use the rdf: namespace
16:31:27 <AndyS> q+
16:32:41 <niklasl> <rdf:Description rdf:value="X"/>
16:32:44 <TallTed> s/streamble/streamable/
16:32:45 <j22> nodeElement =
16:32:45 <j22>           element * - ( local:* | rdf:RDF | rdf:ID | rdf:about | rdf:parseType |
16:32:45 <j22>                         rdf:resource | rdf:nodeID | rdf:datatype | rdf:li |
16:32:45 <j22>                         rdf:aboutEach | rdf:aboutEachPrefix | rdf:bagID ) {
16:32:47 <j22>               (idAttr | nodeIdAttr | aboutAttr )?, xmllang?, xmlbase?, propertyAttr*, propertyEltList
16:32:47 <j22>           }
16:32:54 <niklasl> <rdf:Description rdf:attribution="X"/>
16:33:21 <niklasl> <rdf:Description rdf:annotation="X"/>
16:33:44 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/TR/its20/
16:33:47 <TallTed> s|<rdf:Description rdf:attribution="X"/>||
16:34:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:35:21 <TallTed> s|s!RDF/XMl!RDF/XML!||
16:35:27 <j22> AndyS: its is a spec that changes all XML parsing, even if RDF/XML is embedded in a different document.
16:35:53 <TallTed> s|RDF/XMl is not|RDF/XML is not|
16:36:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:37:42 <AndyS>     rdfs:comment "Idiomatic property used for structured values." ;
16:41:54 <niklasl>   <rdf:Description>
16:41:54 <niklasl>       <ex:something rdf:annotation="xyz">X</ex:something>
16:41:54 <niklasl>   </rdf:Description>
16:43:11 <niklasl>       <ex:something rdf:annotation="xyz">
16:43:11 <niklasl>           <rdf:Description rdf:value="abc"/>
16:43:11 <niklasl>       </ex:something>
16:43:52 <AndyS> rdflib and Jena produce an error on property attirbute + inline text for the value
16:44:16 <AndyS> s/attirbute/attribute/
16:49:24 <j22> AndyS: option of last resort is no RDF/XML 1.2
16:49:53 <gtw> q+
16:50:16 <TallTed> i/its is a spec that changes/scribe+ j22
16:50:19 <j22> James: talking about protocol tests. new rdf1.2
16:50:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:50:31 <j22> ack gtq
16:50:31 <gtw> q-
16:50:31 <j22> ack gtw
16:50:34 <AndyS> ack me
16:50:34 <j22> ack AndyS
16:50:58 <j22> gtw: new tests in new rdf 1.2 directory, old tests stay where they are
16:51:04 <TallTed> s/rdflib and Jena produce/AndyS: rdflib and Jena produce/
16:51:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:52:02 <TallTed> s/Jena raises an error/AndyS: Jena raises an error/
16:55:21 <j22> StrawPoll: +d(ont care) +1  0 -1
16:55:54 <TallTed> 0 is usually don't care
16:56:18 <AndyS> option 1- strict / require rdf:version (ideally on root element) -- option 2 - assume control fo rdf nnamepace and
16:57:01 <AndyS> option 1- strict / require rdf:version (ideally on root element) -- option 2 - assume control fo rdf namespace and define as new words , version optional. -- option 3 don't care
16:58:21 <AndyS> option 2
16:58:36 <j22> option 2
16:58:38 <lisp> 3
16:58:39 <Tpt> option 2
16:58:47 <gtw> 3
16:58:54 <tl> +1 to option 2
16:59:02 <TallTed> 3 (I don't have a strong enough grasp of these details)
16:59:28 <niklasl> option 2, noting that I'm slightly worried about annotations being used on triples with empty string values (or langstrings), no rdf:version would interpret the data differently even in compliant RDF/XML parsers
16:59:49 <AndyS> s/fo rdf/of rdf/
17:02:12 <AndyS> j22: ITS may be supported by at the XML level.
17:03:19 <j22> its yes or no strawpoll (-1 no) +1 yes
17:03:22 <j22> +1
17:03:36 <AndyS> +1
17:03:38 <Tpt> +1
17:03:39 <niklasl> +1
17:04:25 <AndyS> rrsagent: draft minutes
17:04:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
17:05:32 <AndyS> meeting: RDF & SPARQL WG (informal discussion)
17:05:37 <AndyS> rrsagent: draft minutes
17:05:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
17:06:18 <AndyS> zakim: end meeting
17:06:32 <TallTed> s|option 1- strict / require rdf:version (ideally on root element) -- option 2 - assume control fo rdf nnamepace and||
17:07:05 <TallTed> s/rrsagent: draft minutes//g
17:07:37 <AndyS> s/option 1- strict / require rdf:version (ideally on root element) -- option 2 - assume control fo rdf nnamepace and//
17:07:46 <AndyS> rrsagent: draft minutes
17:07:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html AndyS
17:08:45 <AndyS> zakim, end meeting
17:08:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been lisp, j22, niklasl, TallTed, pfps, AndyS, gtw, doerthe, tl, tpt
17:08:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:08:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/07-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
17:08:54 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, AndyS; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:08:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
17:08:58 <AndyS> rrsagent, please leave
17:08:58 <RRSAgent> I see no action items