14:01:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
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14:01:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
14:03:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
14:03:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ nicolo-ribaudo
14:03:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
14:04:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/bc0bed33-fd93-40a6-95bb-10f27c641863/20260506T100000/
14:04:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
14:04:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
14:04:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
14:04:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
14:04:49 <mustaq> mustaq has joined #pointerevents
14:06:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: still need to catch up with PLH about status of PE3 and how to tweak our charter with regards to gestures
14:06:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: but I did file our answer to https://github.com/w3c/webai-roadmap/issues/26
14:09:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: question maybe if an AI wants to generate TRUSTED events
14:10:34 <smaug> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/pointer-events/calendar/
14:10:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i guess at that point, the AI/agent may want to run its own headless browser and fake trusted events somehow...
14:11:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: we need to see if the UI Events TF meeting should still be there or removed from calendar
14:12:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: there is no UI Events TF as such anymore, is there?
14:12:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: think Mike Smith was the first person to set this up
14:13:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Expose 'inertial scrolling state' in wheel events https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/587
14:13:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: i have a local patch ready, will send it
14:13:42 <mustaq> Work in progress, expecting to send out a PR in a day or two.
14:14:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: opening this up to the the group now, are there any other issues you've seen that are worth discussing?
14:14:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues
14:16:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: i think https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/628 can be closed ... we have those in pointer events?
14:16:27 <mustaq> May be close https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/628 as WAI?
14:17:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: spec probably needs cleanup to not duplicate button info
14:17:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: makes sense to close ues
14:18:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> s/ues/yes
14:20:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: looking at https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/633
14:21:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: this is about old IE properties
14:21:33 <mustaq> Blink issue: https://crbug.com/40509957
14:21:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: have been discussing if we want to standardise it or not
14:23:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: is there some rounding happening? old ones integer, modern ones double
14:25:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
14:26:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: question about status of PE3
14:26:55 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/779#issuecomment-4055299452
14:27:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: version 3 currently stalled. had a comment on march 13 asking for clarification for why certain tests are failing
14:28:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: do we want to go through them right now?
14:28:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: can probably start looking now...
14:29:27 <plh> https://w3c.github.io/pointereventswg/implementation-reports/wpt-pointerevents-2026-01-25.html#file-26
14:30:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: can we explain why those tests are failing in chrome/firefox? is it a test harness limitation, and then if so why is it passing in safari?
14:31:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: my understanding is that pen is not well supported at low level in webdriver. in some platforms.
14:32:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: like a big text box ... if you drag with mouse, it does text selection. with touch, it scrolls. with pen, it's not clear/varies by platform...
14:33:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: so it could be a windows vs macOS with test harness issue
14:33:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: safari could be treating pen as mouse inthe webdriver
14:33:37 <plh> https://w3c.github.io/pointereventswg/implementation-reports/wpt-pointerevents-2026-01-25.html#file-31
14:34:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: is this the one we discussed recently, where chrome was doing one thing, firefox something else...
14:34:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: so is the spec correct, but it's bugs in browsers?
14:34:57 <smaug> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/commit/a9f4351e61506bfec0a0c111f22d164cf213aa1c
14:34:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: the test was wrong at some point. we fixed it in november...so we believe the test is correct now
14:35:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: do we have bugs filed in chrome/firefox for this?
14:35:45 <mustaq> https://crbug.com/404479707#comment7
14:35:45 <smaug> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/56614
14:35:59 <mustaq> This behavior is not "fully" specified?
14:37:38 <plh> https://w3c.github.io/pointereventswg/implementation-reports/wpt-pointerevents-2026-01-25.html#file-36
14:38:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: safari test driver don't support touch
14:38:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: safari web driver has limited touch support, but not complete
14:38:47 <plh> https://w3c.github.io/pointereventswg/implementation-reports/wpt-pointerevents-2026-01-25.html#file-90
14:39:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: probably same reason as previous one
14:39:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: i think we meant to remove all touch-action tests
14:40:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: touch-action none should be supported everwhere. why is it not passing in firefox? can't remember, will need to check
14:40:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: could be a corner case if we have a whole bunch of fails in firefox
14:41:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: firefox harness doesn't support pan
14:41:09 <mustaq> https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerevent_iframe-touch-action-none_touch.html?label=experimental&label=master&aligned
14:41:13 <plh> s/fails/other tests passing/
14:41:35 <plh> s/pan/pen/
14:42:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: for the test where the behaviour is not fully specified, do we have an issue to track that?
14:43:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: for the remove from slot case? yeah there's an issue in WPT, but not sure where the issue should go. could even go to DOM spec.
14:43:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: what do we do for OUR test though? mark as tentative?
14:43:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: yeah, maybe best to file an issue in our repo
14:43:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: so i'll file an issue in our repo
14:44:17 <mustaq> ...and mark the test as tentative on that issue.
14:45:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: follow-up from breakout day session about gestures
14:45:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: can't quite remember what we agreed regarding gestures and charter
14:46:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i don't think we had fully decided, but my suggestion would be to remove mention of gestures from our current rechartering proposal, incubate regardless as part of our WG time, and once we have matured it more we can recharter with more concrete proposal
14:47:21 <plh> s/WG time/time/
14:48:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: what do we need to do to make it official in WICG
14:48:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i think they need two organisations to lend support
14:50:28 <smaug> mustaq: Why is pointerevent_iframe-touch-action-none_touch.html correct? I don't quite understand why Chrome gets that pointercancel. Currently I think Firefox and Safari do the right thing. I could be missing something. https://wpt.fyi/results/pointerevents/pointerevent_iframe-touch-action-none_touch.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=pointerevent_iframe-touch-action-none_touch.html
14:50:38 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/515
14:53:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: UI events TF meeting
14:54:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: question we had is whether we still need/want UI events TF meeting every month? is there even still a UI events TF as such?
14:54:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: what happens with the other events, like composition events?
14:54:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: who is working on the remaining stuff?
14:55:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: you could go to web editing WG and say "should this group take it over?" and to the same that PEWG did for mouse/wheel
14:55:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: good thing is that it should be easier to do
14:56:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: for pointer events, do we still have dependency on UI events spec? if that spec disappears, would it affect PE?
14:56:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: are we still referencing UI events normatively? yes we are...
14:57:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: and there is still link to keyboard event
14:58:00 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: that should go to editing WG conceptually
14:58:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to file an issue on PE about removing reliance on/reference to remaining UI events, we can flesh out further
14:59:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: mustaq you should move pointerlock-related things in UI events to the pointerlock spec
14:59:27 <smaug> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#external-pointerlock-algorithms
15:00:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: mustaq to look at moving/removing references to UI events related to pointerlock spec
15:01:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: these are the algos that Gary worked on ... i'll take a look at this and update pointerlock
15:02:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
15:02:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:02:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/06-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:02:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RRSAgent, bye
15:02:33 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/05/06-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:02:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to file an issue on PE about removing reliance on/reference to remaining UI events, we can flesh out further [1]
15:02:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/05/06-pointerevents-irc#T14-58-30
15:02:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mustaq to look at moving/removing references to UI events related to pointerlock spec [2]
15:02:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/05/06-pointerevents-irc#T15-00-19