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13:59:40 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-irc
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13:59:48 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
13:59:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:59:50 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
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14:00:08 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
14:00:14 <acoburn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260504T100000/#agenda
14:00:14 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:00:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Introductions & Announcements
14:00:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Follow-up from Face-to-Face meeting
14:00:17 <eBremer> present+
14:00:51 <TallTed> present+
14:00:53 <acoburn> acoburn has joined #lws
14:00:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-minutes.html TallTed
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14:01:49 <acoburn> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html
14:02:06 <acoburn> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/28-lws-minutes.html
14:02:18 <acoburn> chair: acoburn
14:02:33 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 1
14:02:33 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions & Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
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14:03:38 <termontwouter> present+
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14:06:55 <acoburn> present+
14:06:56 <termontwouter> scribe+
14:07:21 <termontwouter> acoburn: Any announcements or introductions?
14:07:45 <termontwouter> ... Thanks to anyone who participated in the face-to-face meeting.
14:07:53 <termontwouter> ... We made a lot of progress.
14:08:24 <acoburn> zakim, open agendum 2
14:08:24 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Follow-up from Face-to-Face meeting -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:08:43 <acoburn> Project Task Tracking -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wiAg8UtF0i73bdMD3TBhC9nFdYLYkobBCbCGSF6XXn0/edit?gid=0#gid=0
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14:09:41 <termontwouter> acoburn: We've added some dates in which we hope to get these things done.
14:10:33 <termontwouter> ... Review will be ongoing, but we aim to get the last things done around september.
14:10:58 <termontwouter> ... I'd like to make sure we know what we're talking about it, an that the responsible persons are still okay with the division.
14:11:29 <termontwouter> ... We want to be realistic and not overcommit.
14:13:09 <termontwouter> ... Let start on containers. I was hoping we could get this done in the next two months, but Laurens is not present. Let's skip it for now.
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14:13:16 <ryey> present+
14:13:32 <termontwouter> ... Rui, are you still able to look into virtual resources?
14:13:56 <termontwouter> @rui: yes, but only after two weeks
14:14:08 <termontwouter> s/@rui/rui
14:14:20 <termontwouter> s/rui/ryey/
14:14:40 <termontwouter> ryey: I'd aim from May to June.
14:15:17 <acoburn> scribe+
14:15:52 <acoburn> termontwouter: willing to update issue #116 in May
14:15:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/116 -> Issue 116 Abstract 'containers' as Link Set representations of arbitrary relational metadata (by termontwouter)
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14:16:22 <acoburn> ... start in May, ready in June is doable
14:17:01 <termontwouter> acoburn: Storage description capabilities is cancelled, so we skip that.
14:17:16 <pchampin> present+
14:17:21 <termontwouter> ... About the inconsistencies, Laurens is named there, but anyone can of course flag them.
14:20:06 <termontwouter> acoburn: For updating the editor section, pchampin, might this also be done in June?
14:20:11 <termontwouter> pchampin: Yes
14:20:53 <termontwouter> acoburn: Jeremy is not present. Does anyone have a preference for when to tackle the introduction?
14:21:08 <termontwouter> pchampin: I don't see this as blocking, so by July would be okay.
14:21:29 <termontwouter> acoburn: Ready for review in June.
14:21:57 <termontwouter> ... For the other editorial tasks, let's say the same timeframe.
14:22:18 <termontwouter> ... Threat modelling. I don't know what the timeframe is. Rui?
14:22:42 <termontwouter> ryey: Depends on how much time we have. It can be done in parallel. I'm happy to start after June.
14:23:05 <termontwouter> acoburn: So we say June to July?
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14:23:20 <termontwouter> ryey: A rough version perhaps.
14:23:32 <termontwouter> acoburn: Let's say ready for review in June.
14:23:48 <termontwouter> ... Then there's reaching out to IETF.
14:23:55 <acoburn> s/review in June./review in July./
14:24:34 <termontwouter> pchampin: I can do that this month, so let's say by June.
14:24:36 <ryey> Great to hear that, elf-pavlik :) Does the timeframe sound reasonable to you?
14:24:50 <elf-pavlik> 👍
14:25:05 <termontwouter> acoburn: Super
14:25:16 <termontwouter> ... These are all topics Laurens captured.
14:25:39 <termontwouter> ... There's of course the big finishing up of notifications, type indexes, and access grants, which are not listed here.
14:25:54 <termontwouter> ... For notifications, the target is June, since it has not have much review.
14:26:02 <termontwouter> ... For the others, the end of May.
14:26:46 <termontwouter> ... Except for the integration of notifications in access grants, which I've set for end of June.
14:26:58 <termontwouter> ... Any other thoughts on this?
14:28:01 <termontwouter> ... Dmitri, would you want further info, since you were not present last week?
14:28:34 <termontwouter> ... One of the points I want to emphasize is the decisions on containers.
14:29:21 <termontwouter> ... In LDP/Solid today, a resource is either a Container or a DataResource.
14:29:38 <termontwouter> ... There's been significant interest in modelling this slightly different.
14:30:05 <termontwouter> ... We have decided on defining those as affordances (capabilities).
14:30:41 <termontwouter> ... It is then possible, though not required, to have a particular resource be both a Container and a DataResource at the same time.
14:31:53 <termontwouter> ... As an example of how this could work, you could have a Data Resource that with content negotiation gives you back whatever its type is
14:32:16 <termontwouter> ... but if you ask for application/lws+json, it will give you the container representation.
14:32:38 <termontwouter> ... It is up to the server if and how these can be combined; that is not specified.
14:33:21 <pchampin> q+
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14:33:30 <acoburn> ack next
14:34:20 <termontwouter> pchampin: Another important point is the progress on access control to be standardized on the high level of requests and grants, and not on the level of ACLs.
14:34:53 <termontwouter> ... I think that is also a milestone, since it tackles a difficult point in Solid.
14:35:37 <termontwouter> acoburn: Agreed. LWS defines a high-level API of access control, while a server would then translate that down to the technical level, whatever the language.
14:36:13 <termontwouter> ... This is defined by profiles. We provide an ODRL profile.
14:36:33 <termontwouter> ... A client can discover what profiles a server supports. This gives us a lot of flexibility.
14:37:42 <termontwouter> dmitriz: I want to ask the group how they feel about using capabilities for access control.
14:37:46 <termontwouter> q+
14:37:50 <acoburn> q+
14:37:56 <acoburn> ack next
14:37:59 <acoburn> scribe+
14:38:29 <acoburn> termontwouter: there is room for zcap support in terms of how we define a high level and low level
14:38:52 <acoburn> ... the question is whether this group would define a profile for zcaps or whether it is left to external specs
14:39:02 <acoburn> scribe-
14:39:04 <acoburn> ack next
14:39:09 <dmitriz> present+
14:39:23 <termontwouter> acoburn: I'm really keen on seeing how ZCAPs could work.
14:39:38 <termontwouter> ... There are two places in the current proposal where they could fit in.
14:40:14 <termontwouter> ... OAuth is our basis for how our authorization works, but since we use WWW-Authenticate headers, we could easily switch that up.
14:40:23 <dmitriz> q+
14:41:04 <termontwouter> ... Secondly, the high-level layer can provide a hook into the integration with ZCAPs through the profile mechanism.
14:41:14 <termontwouter> ... I think the challenge is more logistical than technical.
14:41:41 <termontwouter> ... There is a lot of new interest in defining ZCAPs, so it is hard to target something still in flight.
14:41:54 <termontwouter> ... We could potentially address that in a WG Note.
14:42:00 <acoburn> ack next
14:42:36 <termontwouter> dmitriz: Speaking of OAuth, does the group define a specific set of scopes, or does it offer support for RAR etc.?
14:42:47 <termontwouter> acoburn: We talked a lot about RAR in the fall.
14:43:19 <termontwouter> ... When we looked into them for LWS, we dropped it because all authorization would work without requiring it.
14:43:21 <pchampin> s/RAR/Rich Authorization Requests (RAR)
14:43:49 <termontwouter> ... An implementation could support it on top of what we define.
14:44:41 <termontwouter> dmitriz: So we do not define string scopes? How do I give access to a resource then?
14:44:54 <termontwouter> acoburn: That's where the high-level access request API comes in.
14:45:38 <termontwouter> ... Basically each server supports requests and grants of a certain profile.
14:45:59 <termontwouter> ... These could be defined with specific rights.
14:46:19 <termontwouter> dmitriz: So we're extracting Rich Authorization Requests into a higher level structure?
14:46:50 <termontwouter> acoburn: Exactly; and that will then be translated into the technical layer and access token for enforcement.
14:48:26 <termontwouter> ... For example, if you'd layer Rich Authorization Requests on top of it, one could imagine it encodes a certain purpose, which is then encoded into an access token.
14:48:29 <acoburn> q?
14:48:57 <termontwouter> acoburn: Any other thoughts?
14:49:28 <termontwouter> ... Let's end early then. Thanks again for attending last week.
14:49:48 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-minutes.html acoburn
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