IRC log of lws on 2026-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:36 [RRSAgent]

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-irc

13:59:44 [Zakim]

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13:59:48 [acoburn]

zakim, start meeting

13:59:48 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

13:59:50 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn

14:00:05 [eBremer]

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14:00:08 [acoburn]

meeting: Linked Web Storage

14:00:14 [acoburn]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260504T100000/#agenda

14:00:14 [agendabot]

clear agenda

14:00:14 [agendabot]

agenda+ Introductions & Announcements

14:00:14 [agendabot]

agenda+ Follow-up from Face-to-Face meeting

14:00:17 [eBremer]

present+

14:00:51 [TallTed]

present+

14:00:53 [acoburn]

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14:00:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-minutes.html TallTed

14:01:48 [bendm]

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14:01:49 [acoburn]

next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/05/11-lws-minutes.html

14:02:06 [acoburn]

previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/28-lws-minutes.html

14:02:18 [acoburn]

chair: acoburn

14:02:33 [acoburn]

zakim, open agendum 1

14:02:33 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Introductions & Announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]

14:02:34 [termontwouter]

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14:03:38 [termontwouter]

present+

14:04:16 [elf-pavlik]

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14:06:55 [acoburn]

present+

14:06:56 [termontwouter]

scribe+

14:07:21 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Any announcements or introductions?

14:07:45 [termontwouter]

... Thanks to anyone who participated in the face-to-face meeting.

14:07:53 [termontwouter]

... We made a lot of progress.

14:08:24 [acoburn]

zakim, open agendum 2

14:08:24 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Follow-up from Face-to-Face meeting -- taken up [from agendabot]

14:08:43 [acoburn]

Project Task Tracking -> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wiAg8UtF0i73bdMD3TBhC9nFdYLYkobBCbCGSF6XXn0/edit?gid=0#gid=0

14:09:14 [elf-pavlik]

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14:09:41 [termontwouter]

acoburn: We've added some dates in which we hope to get these things done.

14:10:33 [termontwouter]

... Review will be ongoing, but we aim to get the last things done around september.

14:10:58 [termontwouter]

... I'd like to make sure we know what we're talking about it, an that the responsible persons are still okay with the division.

14:11:29 [termontwouter]

... We want to be realistic and not overcommit.

14:13:09 [termontwouter]

... Let start on containers. I was hoping we could get this done in the next two months, but Laurens is not present. Let's skip it for now.

14:13:12 [ryey]

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14:13:16 [ryey]

present+

14:13:32 [termontwouter]

... Rui, are you still able to look into virtual resources?

14:13:56 [termontwouter]

@rui: yes, but only after two weeks

14:14:08 [termontwouter]

s/@rui/rui

14:14:20 [termontwouter]

s/rui/ryey/

14:14:40 [termontwouter]

ryey: I'd aim from May to June.

14:15:17 [acoburn]

scribe+

14:15:52 [acoburn]

termontwouter: willing to update issue #116 in May

14:15:52 [gb]

https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/issues/116 -> Issue 116 Abstract 'containers' as Link Set representations of arbitrary relational metadata (by termontwouter)

14:16:21 [ryey_]

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14:16:22 [acoburn]

... start in May, ready in June is doable

14:17:01 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Storage description capabilities is cancelled, so we skip that.

14:17:16 [pchampin]

present+

14:17:21 [termontwouter]

... About the inconsistencies, Laurens is named there, but anyone can of course flag them.

14:20:06 [termontwouter]

acoburn: For updating the editor section, pchampin, might this also be done in June?

14:20:11 [termontwouter]

pchampin: Yes

14:20:53 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Jeremy is not present. Does anyone have a preference for when to tackle the introduction?

14:21:08 [termontwouter]

pchampin: I don't see this as blocking, so by July would be okay.

14:21:29 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Ready for review in June.

14:21:57 [termontwouter]

... For the other editorial tasks, let's say the same timeframe.

14:22:18 [termontwouter]

... Threat modelling. I don't know what the timeframe is. Rui?

14:22:42 [termontwouter]

ryey: Depends on how much time we have. It can be done in parallel. I'm happy to start after June.

14:23:05 [termontwouter]

acoburn: So we say June to July?

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present+

14:23:20 [termontwouter]

ryey: A rough version perhaps.

14:23:32 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Let's say ready for review in June.

14:23:48 [termontwouter]

... Then there's reaching out to IETF.

14:23:55 [acoburn]

s/review in June./review in July./

14:24:34 [termontwouter]

pchampin: I can do that this month, so let's say by June.

14:24:36 [ryey]

Great to hear that, elf-pavlik :) Does the timeframe sound reasonable to you?

14:24:50 [elf-pavlik]

👍

14:25:05 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Super

14:25:16 [termontwouter]

... These are all topics Laurens captured.

14:25:39 [termontwouter]

... There's of course the big finishing up of notifications, type indexes, and access grants, which are not listed here.

14:25:54 [termontwouter]

... For notifications, the target is June, since it has not have much review.

14:26:02 [termontwouter]

... For the others, the end of May.

14:26:46 [termontwouter]

... Except for the integration of notifications in access grants, which I've set for end of June.

14:26:58 [termontwouter]

... Any other thoughts on this?

14:28:01 [termontwouter]

... Dmitri, would you want further info, since you were not present last week?

14:28:34 [termontwouter]

... One of the points I want to emphasize is the decisions on containers.

14:29:21 [termontwouter]

... In LDP/Solid today, a resource is either a Container or a DataResource.

14:29:38 [termontwouter]

... There's been significant interest in modelling this slightly different.

14:30:05 [termontwouter]

... We have decided on defining those as affordances (capabilities).

14:30:41 [termontwouter]

... It is then possible, though not required, to have a particular resource be both a Container and a DataResource at the same time.

14:31:53 [termontwouter]

... As an example of how this could work, you could have a Data Resource that with content negotiation gives you back whatever its type is

14:32:16 [termontwouter]

... but if you ask for application/lws+json, it will give you the container representation.

14:32:38 [termontwouter]

... It is up to the server if and how these can be combined; that is not specified.

14:33:21 [pchampin]

q+

14:33:25 [dmitriz]

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14:33:30 [acoburn]

ack next

14:34:20 [termontwouter]

pchampin: Another important point is the progress on access control to be standardized on the high level of requests and grants, and not on the level of ACLs.

14:34:53 [termontwouter]

... I think that is also a milestone, since it tackles a difficult point in Solid.

14:35:37 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Agreed. LWS defines a high-level API of access control, while a server would then translate that down to the technical level, whatever the language.

14:36:13 [termontwouter]

... This is defined by profiles. We provide an ODRL profile.

14:36:33 [termontwouter]

... A client can discover what profiles a server supports. This gives us a lot of flexibility.

14:37:42 [termontwouter]

dmitriz: I want to ask the group how they feel about using capabilities for access control.

14:37:46 [termontwouter]

q+

14:37:50 [acoburn]

q+

14:37:56 [acoburn]

ack next

14:37:59 [acoburn]

scribe+

14:38:29 [acoburn]

termontwouter: there is room for zcap support in terms of how we define a high level and low level

14:38:52 [acoburn]

... the question is whether this group would define a profile for zcaps or whether it is left to external specs

14:39:02 [acoburn]

scribe-

14:39:04 [acoburn]

ack next

14:39:09 [dmitriz]

present+

14:39:23 [termontwouter]

acoburn: I'm really keen on seeing how ZCAPs could work.

14:39:38 [termontwouter]

... There are two places in the current proposal where they could fit in.

14:40:14 [termontwouter]

... OAuth is our basis for how our authorization works, but since we use WWW-Authenticate headers, we could easily switch that up.

14:40:23 [dmitriz]

q+

14:41:04 [termontwouter]

... Secondly, the high-level layer can provide a hook into the integration with ZCAPs through the profile mechanism.

14:41:14 [termontwouter]

... I think the challenge is more logistical than technical.

14:41:41 [termontwouter]

... There is a lot of new interest in defining ZCAPs, so it is hard to target something still in flight.

14:41:54 [termontwouter]

... We could potentially address that in a WG Note.

14:42:00 [acoburn]

ack next

14:42:36 [termontwouter]

dmitriz: Speaking of OAuth, does the group define a specific set of scopes, or does it offer support for RAR etc.?

14:42:47 [termontwouter]

acoburn: We talked a lot about RAR in the fall.

14:43:19 [termontwouter]

... When we looked into them for LWS, we dropped it because all authorization would work without requiring it.

14:43:21 [pchampin]

s/RAR/Rich Authorization Requests (RAR)

14:43:49 [termontwouter]

... An implementation could support it on top of what we define.

14:44:41 [termontwouter]

dmitriz: So we do not define string scopes? How do I give access to a resource then?

14:44:54 [termontwouter]

acoburn: That's where the high-level access request API comes in.

14:45:38 [termontwouter]

... Basically each server supports requests and grants of a certain profile.

14:45:59 [termontwouter]

... These could be defined with specific rights.

14:46:19 [termontwouter]

dmitriz: So we're extracting Rich Authorization Requests into a higher level structure?

14:46:50 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Exactly; and that will then be translated into the technical layer and access token for enforcement.

14:48:26 [termontwouter]

... For example, if you'd layer Rich Authorization Requests on top of it, one could imagine it encodes a certain purpose, which is then encoded into an access token.

14:48:29 [acoburn]

q?

14:48:57 [termontwouter]

acoburn: Any other thoughts?

14:49:28 [termontwouter]

... Let's end early then. Thanks again for attending last week.

14:49:48 [acoburn]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:49:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/05/04-lws-minutes.html acoburn

17:57:52 [dmitriz]

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