13:31:46 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict 13:31:50 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-irc 13:31:50 agenda cleared 13:31:50 RRSAgent, make logs Public 13:31:51 Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 13:32:01 chair: PhilDay 13:32:01 meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 13:32:01 rrsagent, make minutes 13:32:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 13:32:30 zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes 13:32:30 ok, PhilDay 13:32:30 agenda+ Announcements 13:32:30 agenda+ Update to introduction to address Mitch’s input 13:32:30 agenda+ 2.3.2 Three Flashes 13:32:31 agenda+ 2.3.3 Timeout 13:32:31 agenda+ 3.3.6 Error Prevention (All) 13:32:31 agenda+ 3.3.9 Accessible Authentication (Enhanced) 13:32:32 agenda+ 2.4.8 Location 13:32:32 agenda+ Discuss content for new SCs from 2.x.x onwards (Level AAA) 13:32:50 agenda? 13:33:06 present+ 13:58:51 GreggVan has joined #wcag2ict 14:00:20 loicmn has joined #wcag2ict 14:00:47 Laura has joined #WCAG2ICT 14:00:52 present+ 14:00:55 present+ 14:01:09 scribe+ Laura 14:01:11 present+ 14:02:00 present+ 14:04:39 bbailey has joined #wcag2ict 14:04:47 present+ 14:05:19 zakim, next item 14:05:19 agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:05:47 Link to minutes from Tuesday call where scope of WCAG3 were covered https://www.w3.org/2026/04/21-ag-minutes.html#42ce 14:05:52 Sam5 has joined #Wcag2ict 14:05:55 Issues list of level AAA SCs that have nobody assigned: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3AAAA%20sort%3Acreated-asc%20no%3Aassignee%20%22Success%20Criterion%22 14:06:11 Present+ 14:06:57 zakim, next item 14:06:57 agendum 2 -- Update to introduction to address Mitch’s input -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:07:16 Original issue raised by Mitch, concerning how we define non-web documents: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/852 14:07:26 • Update from Bruce – PR updated? 14:07:26 PR: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/883 14:07:36 q+ 14:07:47 ack bbailey 14:07:48 ack br 14:07:51 ack bbailey 14:08:28 Bbailey: Looks good. 14:08:41 PhilDay: We are adding a note (see change list in Github). 14:08:58 PhilDay: and some glossary improvements. 14:10:13 Daniel: Minor thing, instances of double spacing so editorial correction needed. 14:10:25 q+ 14:11:00 s/double spacing/two spaces 14:11:05 ack Laura 14:12:26 action: Editors to do review of full document for instances of double spaces after a full stop 14:13:08 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For the section “Interpretation of web terminology in a non-web context”, incorporate proposal from PR 883 into the editor’s draft, as is 14:13:26 +1 14:13:30 +1 14:13:33 +1 14:13:37 +1 14:13:38 +1 14:13:48 +1 14:14:09 sam +1 14:14:11 RESOLUTION: For the section “Interpretation of web terminology in a non-web context”, incorporate proposal from PR 883 into the editor’s draft, as is 14:14:17 zakim, next item 14:14:17 agendum 3 -- 2.3.2 Three Flashes -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:14:20 zakim, next item 14:14:20 agendum 3 was just opened, Laura 14:14:25 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/548 14:14:59 PhilDay: Continuing the discussion from last week with three flashes. We didn't need an additional note but we had discussion about an editorial comma. 14:15:05 Proposal 1: no extra commas 14:15:05 Applying SC 2.3.2 Three Flashes to non-web documents and non-web software 14:15:05 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.3.2, replacing “Web pages do not” with “non-web document or non-web software does not”. 14:15:05 With these substitutions, it would read: 14:15:07 [Non-web document or non-web software does not] contain anything that flashes more than three times in any one second period. 14:15:07 Proposal 2: extra commas as per Gregg's suggestion 14:15:07 Applying SC 2.3.2 Three Flashes to non-web documents and non-web software 14:15:08 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.3.2, replacing “Web pages do not” with “non-web document, or non-web software, does not”. 14:15:08 With these substitutions, it would read: 14:15:08 [Non-web document, or non-web software, does not] contain anything that flashes more than three times in any one second period. 14:15:36 q+ 14:15:41 ack bbailey 14:15:42 ack bbailey 14:15:49 q+ 14:16:02 bbailey: all for deferring this to the editors to solve 14:16:17 q+ 14:16:21 q? 14:16:24 ack GreggVan 14:16:25 bbailey: but as two sentences it works but as a compound thing it is not readable 14:16:57 GreggVan: Easy way to solve it "replace with non-webpages do not or non-web software does not" 14:17:49 q? 14:17:51 ack Daniel 14:18:24 Daniel: historically whenever possible we combine because it makes a complex document shorter. 14:18:38 Daniel: Acknowledging the issue, we should consider this is an issue elsewhere. 14:18:46 Daniel: Do not think the comma solves this. 14:19:32 Action: Editors to open issue to consider similar instances of substitution for non web documents or non web software 14:19:37 I agree that there is an issues, and not addressed by merely adding a comma. 14:19:46 q+ 14:19:48 q? 14:19:53 ack loicmn 14:20:27 q+ 14:20:36 Loicmn: I have been looking through WCAG - only the 3 flashes SC use the sentence, web* 14:20:38 ack GreggVan 14:21:02 Proposal 3: separate substitutions 14:21:02 Applying SC 2.3.2 Three Flashes to non-web documents and non-web software 14:21:02 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.3.2, replacing “Web pages do not” with “non-web document does not" or "non-web software does not”. 14:21:02 With these substitutions, it would read: 14:21:04 [Non-web document does not] contain anything that flashes more than three times in any one second period. 14:21:04 [Non-web software software does not] contain anything that flashes more than three times in any one second period. 14:21:07 q+ to say it's the phrase plus the verb that qualifies the phrase what we should be looking for, and I think there's more instances of this 14:21:10 • POLL: For 2.3.2 Three Flashes, do you prefer Proposal 1 (without extra commas) or Proposal 2 (with extra commas)? Answer with a 1 for Proposal 1, 2 for Proposal 2, 3, for Proposal 3, or 0 for no preference. 14:21:10 Loicmn: web pages do not. it's only something specific for these two sections. 14:21:22 POLL: For 2.3.2 Three Flashes, do you prefer Proposal 1 (without extra commas) or Proposal 2 (with extra commas)? Answer with a 1 for Proposal 1, 2 for Proposal 2, 3, for Proposal 3, or 0 for no preference. 14:21:24 GreggVan: I'll take a look at it and see how many instances there are. 14:21:42 https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/ 14:22:15 q- 14:22:41 • POLL: For 2.3.2 Three Flashes, do you prefer Proposal 1 (without extra commas), Proposal 2 (with extra commas), or Proposal 3 (separate sentences)? Answer with a 1 for Proposal 1, 2 for Proposal 2, 3, for Proposal 3, or 0 for no preference. 14:22:47 POLL: For 2.3.2 Three Flashes, do you prefer Proposal 1 (without extra commas), Proposal 2 (with extra commas), or Proposal 3 (separate sentences)? Answer with a 1 for Proposal 1, 2 for Proposal 2, 3, for Proposal 3, or 0 for no preference. 14:22:54 3 14:22:57 3 14:22:57 3 14:23:02 3 14:23:03 3 14:23:25 Sam has joined #Wcag2ict 14:23:33 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 2.3.2 Three Flashes, incorporate proposal 3 into the editor's draft, as is 14:23:42 +1 14:23:46 +1 14:23:51 +1 14:23:54 +1 14:23:54 +1 14:24:05 RESOLUTION: For 2.3.2 Three Flashes, incorporate proposal 3 into the editor's draft, as is 14:24:14 zakim, next item 14:24:14 agendum 4 -- 2.3.3 Timeout -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:24:26 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/549 14:24:54 Applying SC 2.3.3 Animation from Interactions to non-web documents and non-web software 14:24:54 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.3.3 14:25:25 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 2.3.3 Animation from Interactions,incorporate proposal into the editor’s draft, as is 14:25:34 +1 14:25:35 +1 14:25:37 +1 14:25:38 +1 14:25:40 +1 14:25:44 +1 14:25:58 +1 14:26:00 RESOLUTION: For 2.3.3 Animation from Interactions,incorporate proposal into the editor’s draft, as is 14:26:09 zakim, next item 14:26:09 agendum 5 -- 3.3.6 Error Prevention (All) -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:26:30 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/564 14:26:47 Applying SC 3.3.6 Error Prevention (All) to non-web documents and non-web software 14:26:48 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 3.3.6, replacing “Web pages that require” with “Content that requires”. 14:26:48 With these substitutions, it would read: 14:26:48 For content Web pages that requires the user to submit information, at least one of the following is true: 14:26:49 Reversible 14:26:49 Submissions are reversible. 14:26:49 Checked 14:26:50 Data entered by the user is checked for input errors and the user is provided an opportunity to correct them. 14:26:50 Confirmed 14:26:50 A mechanism is available for reviewing, confirming, and correcting information before finalizing the submission. 14:26:51 NOTE (FOR NON-WEB SOFTWARE) 14:26:51 See also the Comments on Closed Functionality. 14:26:51 Suggested content for SC in Success Criteria Problematic for Closed Functionality 14:26:52 ICT with closed functionality may not be able to offer this level of error prevention when limited for security. For example, when entering a personal identification number (PIN) on an ATM, the non-web software is not allowed to know the individual digits that were entered, and therefore the user only gets feedback on completion of the PIN. 14:27:26 PhilDay: Applies as written with word substitution and a suggestion/note for why it might be problematic. 14:27:44 q+ to say that we need to be consistent with 3.3.4 14:27:49 Gregg’s comment: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/564#issuecomment-4300509979 14:27:56 q? 14:27:57 ack loicmn 14:27:57 loicmn, you wanted to say that we need to be consistent with 3.3.4 14:27:59 ack loicmn 14:28:23 Loicmn: We do have a similar one 3.3.4 which is an error provision. We just can be consistent with the one in AA. 14:28:40 Loicmn: No additional notes. Just word substitution 14:29:42 Replace web pages with non-web documents and non-web software, as we did for 3.3.4 14:29:47 q+ 14:29:55 ack bbailey 14:30:08 bbailey: And are we keeping the note under closed functionality? 14:30:19 PhilDay: Note by loicmn that we didn't in 3.3.4 14:30:31 POLL Should we keep the note for closed functionality, or have no note as per 3.3.4? Yes for note, no for no note 14:30:51 No 14:31:52 Content for 3.3.4: https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#error-prevention-legal-financial-data 14:32:09 bbailey: note we develop for 3.3.6 should go back and be used in 3.3.4 14:32:36 POLL: Should we keep the note for closed in 3.3.6, and also add to 3.3.4 (option 1), or have it in 3.3.6 only (option 2), or remove from both (option 3)? 14:32:59 1 14:33:02 3 then 1 14:33:02 1 14:33:05 1 14:33:05 q+ 14:33:06 1 14:33:11 ack daniel 14:33:57 q+ 14:34:13 Daniel: Adding this to 3.3.4 includes essential qualifiers vs 3.3.6 does not. 14:34:33 q? 14:34:35 ack bbailey 14:35:01 bbailey: 3.3.4 does not have the exception in the body of the SC. That was something we added to ICT. 14:35:09 q? 14:35:19 q+ 14:35:42 ack loicmn 14:36:05 loicmn: The only difference is that 3.3.4 is restricted to a certain type of data vs 3.3.6 is not restricted. 14:37:08 Loicmn: I don't believe we need the noet 14:37:12 s/noet/note 14:37:27 q+ 14:37:30 ack PhilDay 14:37:58 PhilDay: ATM example specifically, you can't provide reversible, confirmation, checks. 14:38:30 Its a good note. 14:38:49 q+ 14:39:03 ack Daniel 14:39:15 Daniel: May be covered by the reversible option. 14:39:38 q+ 14:39:41 POLL: Should we keep the note for closed in 3.3.6, and also add to 3.3.4 (option 1), or have it in 3.3.6 only (option 2), or remove from both (option 3)? 14:39:46 ack bbailey 14:40:14 q? 14:40:43 3 14:40:49 1 14:41:04 3 14:41:08 q- 14:41:20 1 14:41:34 but ok with 3. 14:41:43 q+ to explain the example in the proposed note is not submit 14:41:50 ack loicmn 14:41:50 loicmn, you wanted to explain the example in the proposed note is not submit 14:42:14 q+ 14:42:28 ack bbailey 14:42:29 daniel: This example is not an example of submission of data. 14:42:36 3 14:43:06 bbailey: how about a note mentioning under closed that submitting the pin allows you to resubmit. 14:43:09 q+ 14:43:30 ack Laura 14:43:34 scribe+ 14:44:09 Laura: Submit as it's defined, it does get submitted. The way you know it's incorrect it's because it's been submitted, checked, and marked as incorrect 14:44:25 ... And it wouldn't be "reversable", it's "repeatable". 14:44:52 Proposed alternative note: For ICT with closed functionality, an example that meets the intent of reversible is offering the user the ability to submit a password or PIN the second time after an incorrect entry rejected. 14:45:08 GreggVan: It falls under the same logic but it's not the same words, you cannot revert the submission .Agree it's a bad example 14:45:13 q? 14:45:16 Laura: I think it's a great example for why you need the note 14:45:31 i think being able to re-enter pin or pw falls under Checked 14:45:38 ... In ATMs that's a great example, you cannot check that you've entered the information 14:46:01 > Data entered by the user is checked for input errors and the user is provided an opportunity to correct them. 14:46:06 For ICT with closed functionality, the user cannot always validate the information before sumission (for example, with entering PIN or password) as it is not validated until after submission. An example that meets the intent of reversible is offering the user the ability to submit a password or PIN the second time after an incorrect entry rejected. 14:46:18 Gregg: We said it has to either be reversable or meet the other clauses 14:46:23 q+ 14:46:31 Laura: We're just saying sometimes it cannot be applied due to security checks 14:46:49 ack bbailey 14:46:58 scribe- 14:47:16 q+ to say that a PIN or password is not information.... it is identification 14:47:20 bbailey: I don't think it's a failure but I do think it's nice to include a note about ATMs 14:47:21 q? 14:47:27 q+ 14:47:56 q? 14:48:05 ack loicmn 14:48:05 loicmn, you wanted to say that a PIN or password is not information.... it is identification 14:48:06 Laura: Is it ok if there is no opportunity to re enter the pin? 14:48:20 Bbailey: It's ok to fail WCAG based on the SC 14:48:43 GreggVan: Security "reasons" for not being accessible does not make it accessible. 14:49:39 daniel: There is not real input error because there is no bad format. You're not an unidentified person in the system. Your identification is not correct. 14:49:56 Daniel: there is nothing special for closed system. 14:50:05 q? 14:50:16 ack laura 14:50:22 q? 14:50:28 +1 to Loíc 14:50:49 Loicmn: There is not real input error because there is no bad format. You're not an unidentified person in the system. Your identification is not correct. There is nothing special for closed system. 14:51:19 i am okay with not having the note 14:51:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:51:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel 14:52:11 I am ok without the note as well 14:52:28 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 3.3.6 Error Prevention (All) incorporate proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown (removing notes) in the meeting minutes above 14:52:33 +1 14:52:33 +1 14:52:34 +1 14:52:36 +1 14:52:37 +1 14:52:38 +1 14:52:51 RESOLUTION: For 3.3.6 Error Prevention (All) incorporate proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown (removing notes) in the meeting minutes above 14:53:14 zakim, next item 14:53:14 agendum 6 -- 3.3.9 Accessible Authentication (Enhanced) -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:53:21 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/565 14:53:52 Applying SC 3.3.9 Accessible Authentication (Enhanced) to non-web documents and non-web software 14:53:52 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 3.3.9. 14:53:52 NOTE (FOR NON-WEB SOFTWARE) 14:53:52 See also the Comments on Closed Functionality. 14:53:52 Suggested content for SC in Success Criteria Problematic for Closed Functionality 14:53:52 Examples in this SC are problematic for closed systems. A third party password manager is not used in a closed system. Web auth alternatives that rely on biometrics will require a second biometric option, using different biometric features. Two factor authentication can not be made available via a USB on a closed system. Two factor authentication 14:53:52 via QR codes can be problematic for users who are blind/have low vision. 14:55:02 q+ 14:55:05 q+ 14:55:06 ack Laura 14:55:15 q+ 14:55:45 ack bbailey 14:55:54 Laura: More issues with the examples than the content 14:55:54 q+ to say the examples don't meet the SC 14:56:16 bbailey: I think whatever we did for 3.3.8 is what we can do for 3.3.9 14:56:23 q? 14:56:26 ack GreggVan 14:56:43 q? 14:56:45 ack loicmn 14:56:45 loicmn, you wanted to say the examples don't meet the SC 14:56:52 greggvan: in that sentence editorial change from "web auth" to "web authentication" 14:57:01 loicmn: same as 3.38. 14:57:09 Agree. 14:57:29 loicmn: if there is something in the note that is useful it should be in both. 14:58:10 q+ 14:58:18 action: Laura to check 3.3.8 to make 3.3.9 consistent with that content. 14:58:18 ack bbailey 14:58:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:58:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel 14:58:27 q+ 14:58:37 bbailey: Authentication in this context is really re-authentication. 14:58:52 q? 14:58:54 ack GreggVan 14:58:55 greggvan: I disagree. 14:59:12 greggvan: this is confusing authentication with registration 14:59:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html Laura 15:00:33 GreggVan: Been going through document to look for consistency of word substitution (X or Y) - will send through a word document and open a new issue. 15:00:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:00:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel 15:00:55 loicmn has left #wcag2ict 15:01:28 rrsagent, make minutes 15:01:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 15:01:46 zakim, end meeting 15:01:46 As of this point the attendees have been PhilDay, loicmn, Laura, GreggVan, Daniel, bbailey, Sam 15:01:46 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 15:01:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim 15:01:53 I am happy to have been of service, PhilDay; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:01:53 Zakim has left #wcag2ict 15:02:15 rrsagent, bye 15:02:15 I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-actions.rdf : 15:02:15 ACTION: Editors to do review of full document for instances of double spaces after a full stop [1] 15:02:15 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-irc#T14-12-26 15:02:15 ACTION: Editors to open issue to consider similar instances of substitution for non web documents or non web software [2] 15:02:15 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-irc#T14-19-32 15:02:15 ACTION: Laura to check 3.3.8 to make 3.3.9 consistent with that content. [3] 15:02:15 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-wcag2ict-irc#T14-58-18