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15:58:32 <ktk> meeting: RDF-star WG meeting
15:58:39 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/e5234c80-4c06-4c6b-af43-c78a1dbd390a/20260423T120000/
15:58:39 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:58:39 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/04/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:58:39 <agendabot> agenda+ RDF Threat Model: get some help from the TMCG -> 2 https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/tmcg/calendar/
15:58:39 <agendabot> agenda+ Report from the meeting with the TAG
15:58:40 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
15:58:43 <agendabot> agenda+ Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8
15:58:46 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
15:59:13 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:59:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
15:59:29 <ktk> RRSAgent, make log public
15:59:41 <AndyS> meeting: RDF and SPARQL Working Group
15:59:41 <AndyS> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:59:41 <AndyS> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/30-data-shapes-minutes.html
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16:01:08 <AndyS> present+
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16:02:10 <Dominik_T> present+
16:02:19 <gtw> present+
16:02:23 <niklasl> present+
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16:03:23 <TallTed> present+
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16:03:44 <pchampin> present+
16:04:03 <fsasaki> present+
16:04:05 <AndyS> regrets: ora
16:04:21 <ktk> chair: ktk
16:04:26 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:04:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of last week’s minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2026/04/16-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:04:37 <pfps> minutes look acceptable
16:04:39 <tl> present+
16:04:49 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Approve last week's minutes
16:04:52 <TallTed> +1
16:04:53 <Dominik_T> +1
16:04:54 <olaf> +1
16:04:55 <AndyS> +1
16:04:56 <enrico> +1
16:04:56 <ktk> +1
16:04:57 <niklasl> +1
16:04:58 <pchampin> +1
16:04:58 <gtw> +1
16:05:02 <pfps> +1
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16:05:05 <tl> +1
16:05:11 <william-vw> +1
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16:05:24 <Souri> present+
16:05:24 <doerthe> present+
16:05:29 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:05:31 <Souri> +1
16:05:33 <ktk> present+
16:05:44 <fsasaki> +0
16:05:44 <ktk> RESOLUTION: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:57 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:05:57 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- RDF Threat Model: get some help from the TMCG -> 2 https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/tmcg/calendar/ -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:06:31 <olaf> pchampin: the security IG work on a thread model for RDF
16:06:38 <AndyS> scribe: olaf
16:06:46 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-threat-model/
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16:07:02 <olaf> ... community group (not IG)
16:07:08 <lisp> present+
16:07:29 <olaf> ... there will be a call about that
16:07:46 <olaf> ... the dates/times are in the calendar of the CG
16:08:04 <olaf> ... interested people are encouraged to join this call
16:08:06 <TallTed> fwiw, I would join the June call, but cannot join the May call
16:08:29 <olaf> ... the idea will be that we come with our diagram
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16:08:40 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/TR/threat-modeling-guide/
16:08:47 <olaf> ... and they will guide us in the right direction regarding thread modeling
16:08:50 <ktk> q?
16:08:51 <j22> present+
16:09:14 <olaf> ktk: preferences for these times?
16:09:27 <olaf> AndyS: I can do both, but would like time to prepare
16:09:40 <olaf> ktk: I will join as well.
16:10:05 <olaf> pchampin: Okay, I will ask them for the date in June.
16:10:21 <olaf> ... If they cannot, then I will ask for the date in May.
16:10:30 <ktk> q?
16:10:43 <olaf> ... I would like to do this rather sooner than later because it may be a blocking issue for CR
16:11:14 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:11:14 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Report from the meeting with the TAG -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:11:19 <olaf> ... I will ping the relevant folks here in the github issue to be created for that call
16:12:03 <olaf> pchampin: We had a meeting with the TAG about the updated syntaxes breaking old parsers
16:12:33 <olaf> ... The conclusion was that the TAG is okay with us moving forward if ...
16:13:08 <olaf> ... we provide more guidance what parsers have to do when encountering something that they don't understand
16:13:16 <AndyS> q+
16:13:20 <olaf> ... and what RDF 1.1 clients should do when they encounter 1.2 data
16:13:25 <ktk> q?
16:13:29 <ktk> ack AndyS
16:13:40 <olaf> AndyS: meeting went well, they accepted our position
16:13:57 <olaf> ... we talked about the media type issue
16:14:11 <olaf> ... ora made good arguments which convinced them
16:14:37 <pchampin> q+
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16:15:09 <olaf> ... It is small amount of text that will have to go into Concepts
16:15:18 <olaf> ktk: only in Concepts?
16:15:41 <olaf> AndyS: yes, better to put it in one place and then the other docs can refer to it
16:15:55 <olaf> ktk: Doe JSON say anything about bad/wrong JSON?
16:16:28 <olaf> AndyS: It's stronger in JSON because, there, you need to have the whole doc before you can start processing.
16:16:54 <ktk> q?
16:16:58 <olaf> ... whereas RDF formats can be processed in a streaming manner
16:17:00 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:17:06 <olaf> pchampin: +1 to AndyS
16:17:39 <olaf> ... But the Turtle spec says that ??? is not specified
16:18:00 <olaf> ... My take is that an error must be signaled (how is up to the implementers)
16:18:08 <j22> json => A conforming processor of JSON texts should not accept any inputs that are not conforming JSON texts. A
16:18:08 <j22> conforming processor may impose semantic restrictions that limit the set of conforming JSON texts that it will
16:18:08 <j22> process.
16:18:40 <olaf> ... and give some leeway on how many triples should be used when an error is discovered
16:19:09 <AndyS> q+
16:19:21 <j22> q+
16:19:40 <olaf> ... It would be a shame to prevent one of the behaviors to be implemented
16:20:07 <ktk> ack AndyS
16:20:09 <olaf> ktk: right! Example is the Web Data Commons dataset, which is huge and there are errors in these files
16:20:19 <ktk> ack j22
16:20:21 <ktk> ack j
16:20:40 <olaf> j22: There is a difference between conforming and the implementation choice
16:20:58 <olaf> ... the spec shouldn't forbid either way
16:21:03 <olaf> AndyS: similar!
16:21:26 <olaf> ... The specs shouldn't say anything explicitly about what to do when going into recovery
16:21:43 <olaf> Does anyone know any recovering parsers?
16:21:57 <olaf> pchampin: I have some plans for NTriples and NQuads.
16:21:59 <niklasl> +1 to the non-conforming remarks; recovery/error-correction is too non-deterministic to encourage, IHMO.
16:22:11 <olaf> AndyS: These are easier.
16:22:32 <william-vw> Recovering parsers are very common for HTML ; if RDF is presenting itself as a Web standard, perhaps they should also be at least allowed
16:22:49 <olaf> pchampin: We should indeed not spec what recovery means, but leave this as a choice for implementers
16:23:09 <olaf> AndyS: Ora did mention that issue in the TAG meeting
16:23:14 <j22> q+
16:23:31 <pchampin> hence the importance of *signaling* the error :)
16:23:32 <ktk> ack j
16:23:32 <olaf> ... it is not about individual triples but also about cases with multiple triples about a person.
16:24:19 <olaf> j22: The Oracle parser and ??? was of a recovering parser.
16:24:44 <TallTed> a/and ??? was/and Virtuoso was/
16:24:50 <olaf> ... for instance broken literals that contain a snippet of Turtle inside
16:25:40 <niklasl> q+
16:26:09 <niklasl> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/189
16:26:09 <ktk> ack niklasl
16:26:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/189 -> Issue 189 Consolidate advice about versions of RDF syntax and HTTP access (by niklasl) [needs discussion] [ms:CR]
16:26:26 <olaf> niklasl: I wrote a tracking issue for the details about how to explain this.
16:26:40 <olaf> ... I think we are in agreement that this should go into Concepts.
16:26:56 <olaf> ktk: Was Sarven in the call?
16:26:59 <olaf> pchampin: yes.
16:27:05 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:27:05 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of open PRs, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:27:29 <olaf> ktk: Any PRs to merge?
16:27:35 <william-vw> william-vw has joined #rdf-star
16:27:56 <olaf> ... There are some new ones.
16:28:41 <olaf> AndyS: ktk, what about Turtle 116 ?
16:28:54 <olaf> ktk: can be merged
16:29:30 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-new/pull/18
16:29:31 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-new/pull/18 -> Pull Request 18 what properties can or should link to triple terms? (by rdfguy)
16:30:05 <olaf> ktk: Are we waiting for something on this PR?
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16:30:51 <olaf> TallTed: I have a bunch of change requests in that PR, for Ora to take care of
16:30:52 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-new/pull/21
16:30:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-new/pull/21 -> Pull Request 21 Include common files by reference (by niklasl)
16:31:14 <olaf> ktk: This one ready to merge?
16:31:22 <olaf> niklasl: yes, I will merge it
16:31:25 <pchampin> q+
16:31:34 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-primer/pull/36
16:31:35 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-primer/pull/36 -> Pull Request 36 update spec/common with the latest version (by pchampin)
16:32:30 <olaf> niklasl: That one should be closed
16:32:33 <olaf> pchampin: yes
16:32:38 <olaf> ... will do
16:32:45 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:32:53 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/pull/66
16:32:54 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-schema/pull/66 -> Pull Request 66 Declare XSD 1.1 facets as rdf:Property and annotate them (by domel) [ms:future-work]
16:33:14 <olaf> ktk: Did we have an agreement on this one?
16:33:35 <olaf> Dominik_T: can be closed because there was no consensus on it
16:34:21 <ktk> q?
16:34:22 <niklasl> q+
16:34:28 <niklasl> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/135
16:34:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/135 -> Pull Request 135 Add content negotiation subsection (by niklasl)
16:34:30 <olaf> pchampin: I can update the dashboard to not show PRs or issues tagged as future work
16:35:21 <olaf> niklasl: This one can be closed as well, or revised complete to reference Concepts.
16:35:25 <Dominik_T> +1 for close https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/pull/135 and focus on https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/189
16:35:25 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/189 -> Issue 189 Consolidate advice about versions of RDF syntax and HTTP access (by niklasl) [needs discussion] [ms:CR]
16:35:33 <ktk> q?
16:35:36 <ktk> ack niklasl
16:35:37 <olaf> s/complete/completely
16:35:47 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:35:47 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Identifying issues to solve before CR -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:36:39 <olaf> ktk: What do we need to finish the editor's notes?
16:36:47 <olaf> pchampin: They are included by reference
16:36:57 <olaf> ktk: Which is maintained where?
16:37:02 <olaf> pchampin: in rdf-commons
16:37:15 <olaf> ktk: Who will update this?
16:37:53 <olaf> pchampin: I will make a PR in rdf-commons
16:38:11 <olaf> ktk: and please reference the PR in this issue; then, we can close the issue
16:38:19 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86
16:38:20 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-xml/issues/86 -> Issue 86 Evolving 1.2 triple term features : rdf:parseType, rdf:annotation (by afs) [ms:CR]
16:38:46 <olaf> ktk: should this remain open?
16:39:02 <olaf> AndyS: It tries to pull everything into one place
16:39:33 <olaf> ... There have been concerns that this affects RDF/XML  1.1 data.
16:40:06 <olaf> ktk: What about the CR-related tracker issues?
16:40:20 <olaf> AndyS: There is a suggested change.
16:40:37 <olaf> ... It does require a WG vote.
16:40:51 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-trig/issues/55
16:41:21 <Dominik_T> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:41:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-rdf-star-minutes.html Dominik_T
16:42:02 <AndyS> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-turtle/issues/131
16:42:31 <olaf> AndyS: I will do something that is more focused.
16:42:35 <ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/8
16:43:09 <olaf> niklasl: That's the one from today that I mentioned earlier.
16:43:20 <olaf> ... AndyS said hat we should discuss this
16:43:27 <olaf> ... May be at the next meeting.
16:43:40 <olaf> AndyS: That would be a separate topic.
16:43:47 <ktk> q?
16:43:50 <olaf> ... related to the TAG response
16:43:56 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:43:56 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:44:17 <olaf> ktk: In two weeks is KG Conf.
16:44:32 <olaf> ... Ora and I will be there (doing an RDF 1.2 presentation)
16:44:50 <olaf> ... I propose to cancel the meeting in that week,
16:44:56 <niklasl> +1 for PR chat
16:45:00 <pchampin> q+
16:45:16 <olaf> AndyS: If we have some PRs floating around, we can have a chat to advance on these.
16:45:40 <olaf> ... We can decide closer to the time whether we will use the time.
16:45:52 <TallTed> minimally programmed working session works for me. some minutes/notes might be useful.
16:46:03 <olaf> pchampin: I will not be able to join next week.
16:46:20 <olaf> ... In two weeks, I can chair if needed.
16:46:26 <niklasl> q+
16:46:26 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:46:32 <ktk> ack niklasl
16:46:36 <niklasl> https://github.com/speced/respec/pull/4925
16:46:52 <olaf> niklasl: PR for dark mode merged
16:47:03 <olaf> ktk: amazing :-)
16:47:51 <olaf> niklasl: No need anymore to tinker with that for our specs specifically.
16:48:06 <pchampin> s/for dark mode/fixing dark mode in Respec
16:48:20 <olaf> AndyS: Will that affect specs in other groups?
16:48:25 <olaf> niklasl: yes
16:48:39 <olaf> ... You need to refresh you browser cache.
16:48:51 <ktk> q?
16:49:18 <Dominik_T> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:49:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-rdf-star-minutes.html Dominik_T
16:49:28 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:49:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/23-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
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