12:39:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
12:39:19 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-irc
12:39:19 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:39:20 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
12:39:30 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
12:39:38 <janina> Date: 22 Ap[r 2026
12:39:44 <janina> Chair: Matthew
12:39:50 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
12:39:50 <janina> agenda+ [TPAC 2026](https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2026/tpac-2026/)
12:39:50 <janina> agenda+ [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues)
12:39:50 <janina> agenda+ [Issue tracking](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues)
12:39:51 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul)
12:39:52 <janina> agenda+ Other business
12:39:55 <janina> agenda+ Be done
12:58:13 <janina>  /join #rqtf
12:58:19 <janina> present+
12:58:23 <janina> agenda?
13:34:32 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
13:34:39 <matatk> agenda?
13:34:46 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:34:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html matatk
13:53:45 <JonCohn> JonCohn has joined #apa
13:56:07 <janina> regrets: Jennifer_Strickland, Eric_Hind, Roy_Ruoxi_Ran, Tiffany_Saulter, Gottfried_Zimmerman
13:57:28 <janina> present+
14:00:20 <JonCohn> present+
14:02:32 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
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14:03:24 <PaulG> present+
14:03:54 <Neha> Neha has joined #apa
14:04:05 <Neha> present+
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14:06:02 <Fredrik> present+
14:06:36 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
14:06:36 <matatk> present+
14:06:39 <janina> present+
14:06:56 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:06:56 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:07:17 <Fredrik> matatk: Nothing particular apart from discussions of old art rock bands.
14:07:30 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
14:07:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:07:31 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:07:31 <Zakim> 2. [TPAC 2026](https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2026/tpac-2026/) [from janina]
14:07:34 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:07:34 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [TPAC 2026](https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2026/tpac-2026/) -- taken up [from janina]
14:07:49 <Fredrik> janina: Drumpets, trumroll!
14:08:01 <stevef> stevef has joined #apa
14:08:06 <Fredrik> matatk: TPAC 2026! *And yes, the 2027 date and location have been announced as well.)
14:08:10 <stevef> present+
14:08:23 <Fredrik> matatk: Start thinking about what you will need or might want to do at TPAC.
14:08:28 <stevef> somebody to love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_to_Love_(Jefferson_Airplane_song)
14:08:37 <Fredrik> matatk: Any and all questions much appreciated and welcome.
14:08:51 <Fredrik> matatk: It is very much worh it applying for the Invited Expert Travel Fund.
14:09:09 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #apa
14:09:10 <Fredrik> matatk: Unless there isn't one, but that is highly unlikely.
14:09:29 <Fredrik> janina: We're Dublin down on Ireland this year.
14:09:29 <Dr_Keith> present+
14:09:42 <Fredrik> janina: Next year Panama City in December due to the rainy season.
14:10:07 <Fredrik> matatk: I have many fond memories of Dublin.
14:11:13 <Fredrik> matatk: Brilliant stuff coming up, brilliant stuff has gone down before.
14:11:18 <matatk> q?
14:11:22 <Fredrik> matatk: We will keep everyone posted on the IE Travel Fund.
14:11:29 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:11:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
14:11:39 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:11:39 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Spec review requests](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
14:11:50 <Fredrik> matatk: As ever, we have got lots to get through.
14:12:03 <Fredrik> matatk: There are some we need to pay particular attention to.
14:12:11 <matatk> subtopic: Explainer: Extended Descriptions for Publications and the Web
14:12:11 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y-extended-desc/blob/main/README.md
14:12:11 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/311
14:13:06 <Fredrik> matatk: Reminding people of last week's extended description discussion and the attendant thread and meta thread on that.
14:13:34 <matatk> subtopic: WebTransport
14:13:34 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/310
14:13:52 <Fredrik> matatk: We also talked about this last week and I agree with our initial assessment. It is very low level.
14:14:08 <Fredrik> matatk: They actually filled out the HTML version of the FAST checklist which is good *woop woop from scribe).
14:14:21 <Fredrik> matatk: NOthing for us to do here, I'm convinced.
14:14:29 <Fredrik> s/Nothing
14:15:17 <Fredrik> matatk: The example was weird though (as noted by Paul which wasn't minuted, again scribe notes).
14:15:49 <chiace> chiace has joined #apa
14:15:52 <Fredrik> matatk: Froman APA perspective we don't have anything to say aobut the spec. The issue of the example is more a personal comment level thingy and I will credit Paul for the discovery of course.
14:16:00 <matatk> subtopic: Mathematical Markup Language (MathML) Version 4.0
14:16:00 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/303
14:16:29 <Fredrik> matatk: Neha worked on some examples here and has also commented with others on it.
14:16:56 <Fredrik> matatk: There is actually a couple interesting development.
14:17:37 <Fredrik> matatk: As for the changes, we aren't concerned. The semantics and the presentational approach are preserved. A11y considerations are substantial. No changes seem negative. The intent attribute seems to semi-semantically explain a structure of an equation.
14:17:50 <Fredrik> matatk: In al, there is richer semantics in this than the previous version.
14:17:57 <Fredrik> s/all
14:18:43 <Fredrik> matatk: One thing that is being worked on is an official acessibility mapping for MathML. People involed include James Nurthern.
14:20:25 <matatk> q?
14:20:54 <matatk> subtopic: RDF 1.2 Syntaxes
14:20:54 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/309
14:23:05 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
14:23:10 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
14:23:19 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:23:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
14:23:48 <Fredrik> matatk: There are interesting things to note in all the updates to this spec and how they manage it.
14:26:35 <Fredrik> matatk: Is it worth adding someone else to this?
14:27:52 <Fredrik> matatk: Steve does it on the urging of Fredrik.
14:27:55 <matatk> subtopic: Accessibility Implementation Guidelines (DVB BlueBook A185)
14:27:55 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/266
14:27:56 <Fredrik> Fredrik: Thanks Steve!
14:28:06 <Fredrik> matatk: This is the DVB thing.
14:28:24 <Fredrik> janina: This is the week, this is the week, this is the week... the ICCHP paper is submitted nad now it's go time!
14:28:52 <matatk> subtopic: CSS Anchor Positioning Level 1
14:28:52 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/289
14:29:07 <Fredrik> matatk: This is the one where we are still proposign an a11y considerations section.
14:29:37 <Fredrik> zakim, next item
14:29:37 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- [Issue tracking](https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues) -- taken up [from janina]
14:29:50 <matatk> subtopic: [css-forms-1] Specify readonly input styles
14:29:50 <matatk> source: w3c/csswg-drafts#12490
14:29:50 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/296
14:29:50 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:29:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
14:30:36 <Fredrik> matatk: Anything we need to do about this right now?
14:31:01 <Fredrik> matatk: IF anyone finds themselves surplussing on the bandwidth department, feel free to immerse yourselvves to an appropriate degree.
14:31:08 <PaulG> q+
14:31:21 <matatk> ack PaulG
14:32:18 <Fredrik> PaulG: This document points out a gap in our collective literature. Someone propbably needs to speak up, maybe APG, to say "this is the test, this is what we need". Basically the consideration, hopefully whoever does that gets feedback from AT users with their experience with read only inputs.
14:32:25 <chiace> Present+
14:32:26 <Fredrik> ack PaulG
14:32:56 <Fredrik> PaulG: Maybe put that in someone's queue to make a note on that?
14:33:20 <Fredrik> matatk: From the perspective as an AT vendor, Jon, do you ahve a perspective on read-only form controls that we should consider/
14:33:30 <Fredrik> JonCohn: I haven't seen anything specifically related to that.
14:33:49 <Fredrik> matatk: In my experience they seem to cause confusion and maybe not as much as placeholders but they do seem to cause confusion.
14:34:06 <Fredrik> matatk: Anyone else with thoughts on read-only input styles?
14:34:25 <Fredrik> stevef: I'd like to, but I just don't have time...
14:34:49 <Fredrik> matatk: I believe someone mentioned that there was either an idea or now an initiative to deprecate it.
14:34:55 <Fredrik> matatk: Does anyone know more about this?
14:35:09 <Fredrik> matatk: I will have a look into it because I would like to explore that.
14:35:38 <Fredrik> matatk: If I were to prioritise, I would say placeholder is more harmful. NOt to hijack the topic too much, but if anyone is interested at looking at this, let me know.
14:35:48 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:35:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
14:35:55 <matatk> subtopic: Other Spec Review: [css-text] `text-fit` property
14:35:55 <matatk> source: w3ctag/design-reviews#1208
14:35:55 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/315
14:37:06 <Fredrik> matatk: It seem s to be changing the size of the font so that it fits into containers. Whcih almost certainly will have a11y implications.
14:37:15 <Fredrik> matatk: The explainer is quite detailed but not too long.
14:37:36 <Fredrik> matatk: I will probably look at it but I would like someone to TAG along.
14:38:05 <Fredrik> PaulG: This hasn't come up in CSS but there was quite a long discussion last week about handlign the meta tag they wanted to add for respecting operating system....
14:38:31 <Fredrik> PaulG: In that case, there ws a lot of problems. A lot of author privilege to override user preference.
14:40:22 <Fredrik> PaulG: There have to be minmums here that should be respected but even those are targeting variably abled users in different ways. So there would have to be big and broad warning tape aroudn this. You would have to understand how muany issues there are in this if you implement it.
14:43:39 <Fredrik> Fredrik: Noting quite interesting discussions here, summarizing with the fact that there is more growth and shrinkage than in your average Alice in Wonderland, also including and referring to pre-call discussions.
14:44:39 <matatk> For reference, links to the other, meta text-scale proposals:
14:44:41 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/241
14:44:48 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/279
14:44:54 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/300
14:48:11 <Fredrik> matatk: This is a potentially really fundamental thing. Once this gets settled one way or the other, this is going to be set in stone. The opportunities and risks are very much worth considering.
14:48:17 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/13557 I think is the latest
14:48:24 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
14:49:37 <PaulG> here is the explainer https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/blob/main/css-env-1/explainers/meta-text-scale.md
14:50:36 <Fredrik> Fredrik: There is AI repackaging of websites in accordance with best practices (whatever that i) which may also factor into this discussion.
14:50:41 <matatk> Thanks Paul, that CSS issue https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/13557 is being tracked in https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/300 linked above (the tracking issue is a good place for APA folk to 'internally' discuss it)
14:51:17 <Fredrik> matatk: Our trackign issue 300 ahs been mentioned before. Paul has put a number of comments in there which are rreally interesting.
14:51:41 <Fredrik> matatk: The CSS thread is very active of late, have a look at that one too.
14:52:20 <Fredrik> matatk: We've smosshed together a couple of related topics there.
14:52:44 <Fredrik> PaulG: We have problems with both grow and shrink.
14:54:17 <matatk> subtopic: [Customizable select] Define UA behavior for interactive content inside <option>
14:54:19 <matatk> source: whatwg/html#12328
14:54:19 <matatk> tracking: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/314
14:54:27 <Fredrik> matatk: If you want APA backup on a personal comment, comment in the APA discussion thread and ask for some amplification.
14:54:53 <Fredrik> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Fredrik
14:55:04 <Fredrik> matatk: We'll get back to this next week.
14:55:31 <Fredrik> PaulG: There is a lot of activity with HTML and canvas now. I can't get a good handle on the a11y  in their demos and that is worrisome. They are moving exceedingly fast.
14:55:45 <Fredrik> matatk: I will make sure to put this on the agenda next week.
14:55:50 <Fredrik> stevef: I've loked into it a little.
14:56:21 <Fredrik> stevef: I will go on looking at it.
14:56:58 <Fredrik> mat: We'll put it on the agenda and if there is somethign particularly interesting, I would very mych like your opinion on it.
14:57:35 <Fredrik> stevef: I got in contact with someone from Freedom to ask them to have a look at the canvas related stuff form the point of view of screen magnification.
14:57:56 <Fredrik> matatk: We'll flag this up wwell ahead of the next meeting so people can look at it as early as possible.
14:58:04 <Fredrik> matatk: Thansk everyone for the contributions and the discussion.
14:58:09 <Fredrik> zakim, end meeting
14:58:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, JonCohn, PaulG, Neha, Fredrik, matatk, stevef, Dr_Keith, chiace
14:58:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:58:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/22-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:58:19 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Fredrik; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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