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14:45:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:45:17 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
14:45:17 <ivan> Meeting: Verifiable Credentials Working Group Telco
14:45:17 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d811d954-dd65-4cce-844a-53dfd95e75c7/20260415T110000/
14:45:17 <ivan> chair: brentz, phila
14:45:17 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2026-04-15: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d811d954-dd65-4cce-844a-53dfd95e75c7/20260415T110000/
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15:05:54 <manu> scribe: Phil-ASU
15:05:55 <Phil-ASU> brent: welcome
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15:06:10 <phila> present+
15:06:15 <Phil-ASU> brent: intros welcomed
15:07:05 <Phil-ASU> Eva: recently joined WG interested vocabs re: passports
15:07:18 <brent> scribe+ Phil-ASU
15:07:35 <ivan> present+ patrick
15:07:56 <ivan> present+ schmittner
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15:08:20 <Phil-ASU> Sebastian: recently joined. Submitted a suggestion for RenderMethod and that's the path to this group. Background in software dev for a small company in Germany. Working on identity and developing a business wallet.
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15:09:41 <manu> q+ to agenda+ some proposals from TFs
15:09:51 <Phil-ASU> Brent: agenda, the f2f meeting. General guidelines for task for leaders and security review and consideration guidelines for today's  agenda, followed by data model maintenance
15:10:01 <brent> ack manu
15:10:01 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to agenda+ some proposals from TFs
15:10:47 <ivan> q+
15:10:57 <Phil-ASU> Manu: barcodes and data integrity group passed a proposal for quantum proof  signatures. We forgot to move the use cases for VCALM when it was moved over to pull from the CCG to to the VCDM WG
15:11:18 <brent> ack ivan
15:11:19 <ivan> q-
15:11:26 <Phil-ASU> Ivan: has questions re: one of those docs for later.
15:11:33 <brent> Topic: F2F Meeting
15:12:10 <brent> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Emo_yVt90Z5xnHNBPhShO4B7zYQ7kwMfNcOa6sKAdoc/edit?usp=sharing
15:12:54 <Phil-ASU> Brent: f2f scheduled for 1st week of June, June 2-4, in Brussels at GS1.  In agenda a sign up sheet for the meeting was sent out. Please let them know if you are coming, or want to participate remotely (same link). No recommended hotels but PhilA might have suggestions if asked
15:12:59 <dmitriz> present+
15:13:03 <ivan> q+
15:13:13 <brent> ack ivan
15:13:31 <phila> q+
15:13:50 <brent> ack phila
15:13:51 <Phil-ASU> Ivan: It's possible to have separate task force meetings before or after the main meeting in Brussels
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15:15:04 <Phil-ASU> Phil A: main meeting room has space for 30 people. Two other rooms for 8 or 11 people, but need advanced booking.  Some smaller rooms but not enough for all task forces to meet at the same time.  A VC Barcode sessino h as been requested, Monday or Thursday afternoon.
15:15:06 <Phil-ASU> Phil A: main meeting room has space for 30 people. Two other rooms for 8 or 11 people, but need advanced booking.  Some smaller rooms but not enough for all task forces to meet at the same time.  A VC Barcode sessino h as been requested, Monday or Thursday afternoon.
15:15:43 <Phil-ASU> Brent: if anyone one wants a focused meeting please ask.
15:16:23 <manu> q+
15:16:29 <brent> ack manu
15:16:32 <Phil-ASU> Joe A: do we have time for a threat modeling session? Do we have an agenda spreadsheet? No not likely until mid-May. Bu this topic is important for f2f meeting.
15:16:49 <Phil-ASU> Manu: if doc is created people can contribute ideas to it.
15:16:58 <Phil-ASU> Brent: will create a doc for that purpose
15:16:59 <brent> Topic: upcoming calls
15:18:23 <Phil-ASU> Brent: Advisory board meeting in China next week. FYI no primary working group call next week. Task forces can meet as desired. Last week in April is IIW. Will there be enough people available to hold this call?
15:18:41 <Phil-ASU> Brent: sufficient interest to hold the meeting
15:19:13 <Phil-ASU> Brent: no meeting next week, but yes there's a meeting the week after (during IIW)
15:19:23 <brent> Topic: TF Leadership guidance
15:20:18 <Phil-ASU> brent: Task force leaders are doing appreciated work on their items. Official task force meetings are not official VC Working Group meetings themselves.
15:21:13 <Phil-ASU> brent: importan for TF leadership are members of the VC Working Group, or their contributions must be non-substantive. Should have non-VC WG members can come and listen.
15:21:43 <ivan> s/importan /important /
15:21:49 <Phil-ASU> brent: TF meetings are recorded and autoscribed and give people a chance to object. If anyone does, manual scribing is required.
15:22:40 <ivan> q+
15:22:55 <Phil-ASU> brent: useful for proposals and resolutions within the TFs but concern that this might become the norm. If there is something to present to the VC WG, that's ok but not to propose and vote of directly in the TF itself.
15:23:14 <Phil-ASU> brent: TFs can't make resolutions which they are not authorized to do on behalf of th e VC WG
15:23:59 <phila> q+ to support
15:24:21 <Phil-ASU> brent: preference as TFs determine something needs to be done, sending that to the mailing list will give WG chairs notice and if proposed language is in the email, that's helpful
15:24:39 <JoeAndrieu7> q+ to ask about language for TF "resolutions"
15:25:04 <brent> ack ivan
15:25:09 <ivan> See https://w3c.github.io/vc-wg/minutes/resolutions.html
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15:25:32 <manu> q+ to ask which features we can use, like PROPOSAL/RESOLUTION? maybe we can put a warning?
15:25:37 <JennieM> present+
15:25:49 <Phil-ASU> Ivan: Agree fundamentally with what Brent said.  He generates a page with a list of resolutions and separates the WG resolutions from any others as WG are formal, the others are informal notifications
15:26:11 <Phil-ASU> brent: would prefer TF decisions do not look or resemble WG resolutions
15:26:11 <brent> ack phila
15:26:11 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to support
15:27:11 <Phil-ASU> Phil A: TFs doing the work, which is necessary. But TF work is being done on behalf of everyone and everyone has a right a may question anything.
15:27:12 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:27:12 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to ask about language for TF "resolutions"
15:27:30 <TallTed> "TF decisions"? "TF recommendations to the WG"?
15:27:33 <manu> q+ to suggest some language
15:27:56 <brent> ack manu
15:27:56 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask which features we can use, like PROPOSAL/RESOLUTION? maybe we can put a warning? and to suggest some language
15:28:19 <Phil-ASU> Joe Andrieu: What should be the language to memorialize it's own consensus to elevate something to the WG?
15:28:19 <Phil-ASU> brent: saying this is something the WG should attend to
15:29:26 <Phil-ASU> Manu: no polling  available at present. Could say things are non-binding but that might be difficult. Could instead stop doing proposals and resolutions and proposals in the TF: and simply do POLL:  and put it the TF notes.
15:30:17 <Phil-ASU> Manu: POLL: with language you wish. Anchors are generated for each poll  that might suffice and be misinterpreted
15:30:41 <manu> q+ to raise one concern that we don't need to go into depth about today, but might become a problem long term.
15:30:55 <Phil-ASU> Brent: TF leadership can use POLL: and or come up with your own language to communicate that and tell VC DM chairs the TF is ready to have this topic discussed.
15:31:34 <Phil-ASU> brent: one can contact the chairs driectly.  There is a vc-github repo to put in as issues if that is preferred.
15:31:37 <brent> ack manu
15:31:37 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to raise one concern that we don't need to go into depth about today, but might become a problem long term.
15:32:13 <Phil-ASU> manu: a lightweight process is preferable. Getting something published and visible, is enough to consider something on the WG calls.
15:32:59 <Phil-ASU> Manu: could say something was published and raising it is fine. This instead of a formal poll: or whatever.
15:33:33 <manu> q+
15:33:39 <Phil-ASU> brent:  having time in the WG meeting for TF leads to raise for the WG to consider is fine.  Pinging the chairs in advance still helpfu.
15:33:44 <manu> q-
15:33:55 <manu> q+
15:34:02 <Phil-ASU> brent: VC DM Maintenance now.
15:34:15 <brent> ack manu
15:34:28 <manu> Topic: Proposal to adopt vc-quantum-safe spec?
15:34:40 <Phil-ASU> Manu: TF has two potential proposals
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15:36:12 <brent> q+
15:36:25 <brent> ack brent
15:36:28 <ivan> q+
15:36:29 <Phil-ASU> Manu: in barcode integrity call voted on the proposal affirmatively. Background: Google and Cloudflare have moved quantum safe signatures will be necessary. Have to advance the timeline on the quantum safe crypto suite. Need to move that to the WG to make it a formal work item.
15:36:42 <manu> q+
15:36:48 <Phil-ASU> brent: are there folks to be editors of this quantum safe crypto suite doc?
15:36:51 <brent> ack ivan
15:37:15 <brent> ack manu
15:37:15 <Phil-ASU> Ivan: the proposal does not say the barcode working group will take this.
15:37:20 <phila> q+
15:37:42 <ivan> q+
15:37:44 <brent> ack phila
15:37:52 <Phil-ASU> Manu: lead editor is Greg Bernstein, and Manu as backup. Presumption is it will in fact be done in the barcode and integrity TF
15:38:21 <ivan> q-
15:38:27 <manu> q+
15:38:34 <brent> ack manu
15:38:38 <Phil-ASU> Phil A:  shouldn't mention the barcode TF is the place it will be taken up regardless of whether that's where it will be discussed.
15:38:55 <ivan> s/Phil A/PhilA/
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15:40:04 <Phil-ASU> Manu: 3 implementers so far have committed to do so.  Have test vectors for mldesa, hsdsa, falcon, sqisign
15:40:41 <ivan> s/mldesa, hsdsa, falcon, sqisign/ML-DSA, SLH-DSA, FALCON (FN-DSA), SQISIGN/
15:40:59 <Phil-ASU> Manu: the test suites will follow the same approach as prior test suites. Just changing the function calls to generate the signatures. Should meet the deadlines and likely will be done sooner.
15:41:15 <brent> PROPOSAL: Adopt the Credentials Community Group Quantum Safe Data Integrity Cryptosuite specification ( https://w3c-ccg.github.io/di-quantum-safe/ ) as a Verifiable Credential Working Group Editors Draft. Transfer the specification to the W3C VCWG once all the appropriate IPR commitments have been made.
15:41:17 <Phil-ASU> Thanks Ivan
15:41:19 <manu> +1
15:41:19 <brent> +1
15:41:21 <dlongley> +1
15:41:21 <ivan> +1
15:41:25 <phila> +1
15:41:26 <TallTed> +1
15:41:27 <kezike> +1
15:41:29 <Phil-ASU> Brent: proposal is in
15:41:30 <Wip0> +1
15:41:32 <dmitriz> +1
15:41:33 <Phil-ASU> Brent: proposal is in
15:41:33 <JennieM> +1
15:41:37 <JoeAndrieu7> +1
15:41:46 <Phil-ASU> +1
15:41:46 <wes-smith> +1
15:42:10 <brent> RESOLVED: Adopt the Credentials Community Group Quantum Safe Data Integrity Cryptosuite specification ( https://w3c-ccg.github.io/di-quantum-safe/ ) as a Verifiable Credential Working Group Editors Draft. Transfer the specification to the W3C VCWG once all the appropriate IPR commitments have been made.
15:42:15 <Phil-ASU> brent: no objects so we are resolved
15:42:27 <phila> s/objects/objections/
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15:43:04 <ivan> q+
15:43:16 <Phil-ASU> Manu: forgot to adopt to pull over VCALM use cases.  May not be needed to pull use case doc from the CCG to get it to the VC WG
15:43:25 <brent> ack ivan
15:43:31 <Phil-ASU> Manu: have editors Eric Shue (sp?)
15:43:49 <Phil-ASU> Ivan: what is the goal?
15:43:59 <JoeAndrieu7> q+ to ask if we need to publish as CCG first
15:44:13 <Phil-ASU> Manu: we have to share it for horizontal review. Will look odd if it doesn't come from the VC WG
15:44:15 <phila> q+ to make a v small comment about Spherity
15:44:40 <Phil-ASU> Manu: Probably publish as a note.  Could be under VCLAM spec or a separate pub.
15:44:41 <Sebastian> and I am all in for post quantum crypto ;) quess was late to vote
15:44:43 <kezike> s/Shue /Schuh/
15:44:48 <manu> q+
15:44:53 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:44:53 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to ask if we need to publish as CCG first
15:45:03 <Phil-ASU> Brent: If there are specific changes that need to be made it doesn't need to be moved over.,
15:45:23 <Phil-ASU> JoeAndrieu: should be moved over.  May be changes.
15:45:33 <brent> ack phila
15:45:33 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to make a v small comment about Spherity
15:45:51 <brent> ack manu
15:45:59 <Phil-ASU> PhilA: Sperity is rejoining the group to be part of this
15:46:29 <Phil-ASU> Manu: would be published as CG final. This proposal is to begin that process
15:46:29 <brent> PROPOSAL: Adopt the Credentials Community Group Verifiable Credentials API Use Cases document ( https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-api-use-cases/ ) as a Verifiable Credential Working Group Editors Draft Note. Transfer the specification to the W3C VCWG once all the appropriate CCG processes are complete.
15:46:32 <manu> +1
15:46:35 <brent> +1
15:46:35 <dlongley> +1
15:46:36 <kezike> +1
15:46:37 <JoeAndrieu7> +1
15:46:37 <wes-smith> +1
15:46:38 <ivan> +1
15:46:38 <bigbluehat> +1
15:46:38 <Phil-ASU> =1
15:46:39 <dmitriz> +1
15:46:40 <TallTed> +1
15:46:40 <bigbluehat> present+
15:46:41 <JennieM> +1
15:46:43 <Wip0> +1
15:46:44 <Phil-ASU> +1
15:46:46 <phila> +1
15:46:47 <JoeAndrieu7> q+ to suggest renaming somewhen
15:46:48 <Elaine> +1
15:46:56 <Phil-ASU> having keyboard issues like Brent
15:47:13 <Phil-ASU> JoeAndrieu: should call it VCALM
15:47:33 <brent> Resolved: Adopt the Credentials Community Group Verifiable Credentials API Use Cases document ( https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-api-use-cases/ ) as a Verifiable Credential Working Group Editors Draft Note. Transfer the specification to the W3C VCWG once all the appropriate CCG processes are complete.
15:47:38 <Phil-ASU> brent: when it's published as a working draft the correct short name when it's published
15:47:48 <brent> Topic: VCDM Maintenance
15:47:57 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model
15:48:19 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1624
15:48:28 <Phil-ASU> brent: Issue not yet triaged #1624
15:49:02 <Phil-ASU> JoeAndrieu: this is editorial (#1624)
15:49:04 <manu> I agree, it's editorial
15:49:29 <Phil-ASU> brent: agrees with that label  therefore class 2
15:49:34 <ivan> +1 to editorial
15:49:47 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1603
15:50:03 <manu> q+
15:50:17 <Phil-ASU> brent: manu was assigned to this and was discussed and willing to address it.
15:50:27 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:50:27 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to suggest renaming somewhen
15:50:31 <brent> ack manu
15:51:00 <Phil-ASU> Manu: still willing to address it and it's straight forward.  Will get to it in 3 week
15:51:14 <Phil-ASU> Brent: enough to move to the next
15:51:19 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1583
15:51:56 <manu> q+
15:52:04 <Phil-ASU> Brent: expects #1583 will make up part of the f2f meeting - no one yet assigned and it's a big one
15:52:26 <brent> ack manu
15:52:29 <Phil-ASU> brent: anyone willing to be assigned to it, and should it be taken up in the f2f meeting
15:53:11 <Phil-ASU> Manu: +1 to taking it up in the f2f.  Have been conversations about how to approach threat models. Probably working on other threat models before the VCDM
15:53:55 <brent> q+
15:54:20 <Phil-ASU> Manu: the subspecifications and their threat models will be useful to have before doing the VCDM. E.g., much of the VCALM threat model may be pulled into the VCDM threat model. A threat model dir. will be created and things put into it.
15:54:32 <JoeAndrieu7> q+ to discuss the possibility "simple" update to both considerations sections
15:54:45 <brent> ack brent
15:54:47 <Phil-ASU> Manu: then it will be refactored into the VCDM threat model. That's the current cunning plan...
15:55:30 <phila> q+ to pass on some advice from the TAG, relevant to current conversation
15:55:58 <Phil-ASU> brent: Simone makes clear can co-exist as part of or separate from the main doc. It can be published separately. Reviewers will be able to see the threat model makes sense. An ecosystem threat model may be sufficient for some TFs.
15:56:17 <brent> ack JoeAndrieu
15:56:17 <Zakim> JoeAndrieu, you wanted to discuss the possibility "simple" update to both considerations sections
15:57:46 <brent> ack phila
15:57:46 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to pass on some advice from the TAG, relevant to current conversation
15:57:50 <Phil-ASU> JoeAndrieu: +1 for iterative method to look a simpler ones first.   We  haven't gotten approval from PING to let threat models deal with privacy considerations. We need both threat and privacy sections. Have an option for TOC in an appendix or separate note, as well. Could keep text to highlight the threats but that adds complexity
15:58:16 <JoeAndrieu7> s/both threat and/both security and/
15:58:52 <Phil-ASU> PhilA: Has received comms for several people. Threats need to highlight dangers, or threats are avoided.
15:59:05 <Phil-ASU> brent: reminder no call next week.
15:59:24 <Sebastian> many thanks! have a good day :)
15:59:26 <Phil-ASU> brent; f2f agenda doc coming'
15:59:29 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:59:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/15-vcwg-minutes.html phila
15:59:38 <Phil-ASU> scribe 1
15:59:52 <Phil-ASU> scribe-
16:01:27 <ivan> no, you did :-)
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16:05:16 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:05:16 <RRSAgent> I see no action items