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12:57:26 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-irc
12:57:54 <kaz> meeting: Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities IG
12:58:07 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
12:58:12 <kaz> chair: Kaz, Koster
12:59:30 <kaz> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/smart-cities/blob/main/README.md#13-april-2026
13:01:54 <Bert> present+
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13:02:20 <kaz> present+ Scot_Simmons
13:02:29 <kaz> present+ Bert_Bos
13:02:41 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
13:03:31 <kaz> present- Scot_Simmons
13:03:39 <kaz> present+ Scott_Simmons
13:03:50 <kaz> present+ Linda_van_den_Brink
13:04:01 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:04:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:04:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
13:04:40 <Bert> scribe+
13:05:30 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #smart-cities
13:05:31 <kaz> topic: Logistics
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13:06:10 <Bert> kaz: agenda and logistics. Guests today: Linda and Scott
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13:06:20 <kaz> topic: Minutes
13:06:34 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/smart-cities/minutes/2026/03/02-smart-cities-minutes.html March 2
13:06:53 <Bert> agenda: https://github.com/w3c/smart-cities/blob/main/README.md
13:07:20 <Bert> Kaz goes over previous minutes.
13:08:07 <Bert> kaz: We need to talk about next charter as well.
13:08:30 <Bert> ... Still waiting for the slides of the last meeting's presentation.
13:09:09 <Bert> resolution: minutes approved
13:09:10 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:09:30 <kaz> topic: Progress check
13:10:55 <Bert> Kaz: we want to write a Note, possibly called Technology Landscape around Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities
13:11:25 <Bert> Kaz shows the current template for the note -> https://w3c.github.io/smart-cities/ig-note/
13:12:25 <Bert> kaz: we can update based on our discussions, such as today's, and liaisons.
13:12:30 <kaz> topic: OGC Collaboration
13:12:41 <Bert> ... today's topic is collabarotaion with OGC
13:13:15 <Bert> topic: Collaboration with OGC (presentation)
13:13:27 <kaz> s/topic: OGC Collaboration//
13:13:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:13:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
13:14:00 <Bert> Linda shows some slides
13:14:25 <Bert> linda: OGC has several standards, for geospation data formats, etc.
13:14:58 <Bert> ... With these standards we, e.g., us at Geonovum, can create interoperable digital twins.
13:15:13 <Bert> ... about soil, rainfall, trafic, etc.
13:15:28 <Bert> ... We are mostly making simulations.
13:15:43 <mjk> mjk has joined #smart-cities
13:15:44 <Bert> ... And testing them in so-called testbeds
13:16:05 <kaz> i|we can update ba|-> https://github.com/w3c/smart-cities/tree/main/ig-note GitHub area for the Note|
13:16:06 <Bert> ... Companies get grants to do testing.
13:16:27 <Bert> ... (I'm skipping many slides with examples.)
13:16:48 <Bert> ... Here is one use case and I'll explain the standards involved.
13:17:05 <kaz> [Get backdrop of Almere
13:17:08 <Bert> ... The use case is about heavy rainfall, that may flood streets.
13:17:14 <kaz> s/Almere/Almere]/
13:17:22 <Bert> ... Start with an aerial photograph.
13:18:06 <Bert> ... Using OGC APIs we can get data, such as maps.
13:18:13 <kaz> [Search for cloudburst simulator]
13:18:30 <Bert> ... Then we search for a model that can do the calculations.
13:19:01 <Bert> ... OGC API Records is an OGC standard that we use for data sets (DCAT)
13:19:21 <kaz> [API Processes]
13:19:38 <Bert> ... Once found, we add interactions, with OGC API Processes
13:20:12 <Bert> ... The use gets back that a simulator is available and he has to fill in some fields.
13:20:23 <Bert> ... That informs the process of the needed data.
13:20:35 <Bert> ... Data comes back in a standards format.
13:20:51 <kaz> [Async
13:20:55 <Bert> ... After the calculation, ehich can take some time, the user gets back the results.
13:20:59 <kaz> s/Async/Async]/
13:21:26 <Bert> ... This is an example of the OGC standards that can be involved in a digital twin.
13:21:52 <Bert> Scott: The context of the digital twin is always understandable and compatible.
13:22:18 <Bert> ... Inclusing the digitial repesresntaions of sensors.
13:22:37 <Bert> ... We've been working with several standards bodies for that, including W3C.
13:22:49 <kaz> q?
13:22:52 <Bert> ... DCAT was already mentioned as an example.
13:22:55 <kaz> q+
13:23:08 <Bert> kaz: Thanks for that presentation.
13:23:17 <Bert> ... You mentioned DCAT.
13:23:45 <Bert> ... How about Webof Things as another model for sensors and devices?
13:24:11 <Bert> scott: Already some standards in OGC, such as SOSA/SSN joint with W3C.
13:24:35 <Bert> ... All those sensors, for use, need a time and space.
13:25:03 <Bert> kaz: WoT in W3C is working on a data model,
13:25:25 <kaz> ack k
13:25:31 <Bert> ... but it doesn't have concrete time and location.
13:26:08 <Bert> linda: When I was in the Spatial Data WG, there were people looking into how the models correspond.
13:26:36 <mjk> q+
13:26:39 <Bert> ... About if they were at different levels and could be comnbined.
13:27:36 <Bert> kaz: [@@ State chart model as basis for synchronizing streams.
13:28:00 <Bert> scott: There has been some work in API for connected services.
13:28:11 <Bert> ... We have to dig a bit to see what is present.
13:28:12 <kaz> q?
13:28:14 <kaz> ack m
13:28:37 <Bert> mjk: I think much is complementary.
13:28:53 <Bert> ... WoT doesn't define its own API.
13:29:07 <kaz> s/[@@ State/wondering about logic handling mechanism for orchestration of multiple entities, a possibility is State/
13:29:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:29:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
13:29:19 <Bert> ... It is more like a sematically rich @@@
13:29:29 <kaz> s/sematically/semantically/
13:29:49 <kaz> s/@@@/data model based on JSON-LD/
13:30:00 <Bert> ... WoT is a fairly compact JSON-LD vocabulary.
13:30:13 <Bert> ... It connects to annotations form other standards.
13:30:23 <Bert> ... It doesn't try to replace other layers.
13:30:31 <Bert> ... It is for coupling.
13:30:48 <Bert> ... IN the context of deployment, how do these pieces work together?
13:31:01 <Bert> ... WoT sort if fills in the cracks.
13:31:29 <Bert> s/ if / of /
13:31:51 <Bert> ... We try to create a bigger, overall standard.
13:32:12 <Bert> ... In this group we look at how everything fitst together
13:32:35 <kaz> q+
13:32:36 <Bert> linda: Sound like interesting work to write that Note that descreibes how everything fits
13:32:46 <Bert> ... OGC would be part of the description.
13:33:20 <Bert> kaz: One point might be user credentials and authorization.
13:33:28 <Bert> ... Are thgere standards for that?
13:33:46 <mjk> ack mjk
13:33:54 <kaz> ack k
13:33:55 <Bert> linda: Notthing specific to geospatial. We use general mechanisms
13:34:19 <kaz> s/Notthing/Nothing/
13:34:56 <mjk> q+
13:35:26 <Bert> linda: There is still work on a new version of SOSA/SSN
13:36:38 <Bert> mjk: Things interactive and asynchronously. In smart buildings, e.g., the sensor can be coupled to a location. In a smart cities, it wil be a different smart model.
13:36:59 <kaz> s/wil be/will be/
13:37:00 <Bert> .... E.g., temperatutre of solar panel array.
13:37:02 <kaz> q?
13:37:06 <kaz> ack m
13:37:09 <kaz> q+
13:37:11 <Bert> ... It is kind of ad hoc.
13:37:36 <Bert> ... We could start in our doc to give guidance.
13:38:00 <Bert> ... Examples and guidance, some constraints on annotations, on client access to semantics.
13:38:30 <Bert> ... Let's queue up a presentation on WoT.
13:38:48 <Bert> ... About Thing Descriptions, new sophisticated interactions.
13:39:05 <Bert> kaz: We don't have anybody today, be we can do that next time.
13:39:32 <Bert> ... About buildings: There are probably many trials for smaller ontologies.
13:39:45 <mjk> ack mjk
13:39:46 <Bert> ... Do you have ways to refer to such emerging ontologies?
13:40:03 <Bert> ... Maybe via DCAT or SOSA.
13:40:12 <kaz> -> https://w3c-lbd-cg.github.io/bot/ Building Topology Ontology
13:40:18 <Bert> linda: I think the OGC Building Blocks allow referring to ontologies.
13:40:31 <Bert> scott: As long as the ontologies are registered.
13:40:45 <Bert> ... OGC standards are highly modularized.
13:41:03 <Bert> ... This is maturing now, not a lot thatis already done.
13:41:43 <Bert> kaz: We'd like JTC1, W3C ond OGC to collaborate.
13:42:15 <Bert> ... Still kind of messy but the mechanisms in JTC should be more clearly defined.
13:42:50 <Bert> mjk: Having RDF ontologies and namespaces make it easier, especially compare to when we only had APIs
13:43:16 <kaz> s|Still kind of messy but|JTC4 has been created and the global situation is still kind of messy, but|
13:43:17 <Bert> linda: Is there already an ontology for properties such as temperature, weight, speed?
13:43:35 <Bert> mjk: QUTD is I think the best.
13:44:00 <Bert> ... Avoids problems such as Celsius vs Fahrenheit.
13:44:33 <kaz> s/QUTD/QUDT/
13:44:36 <Bert> ... What's missing is a good defintiion of what is a set point, rolling average, minimum an maximum.
13:44:55 <kaz> s/minimum an/minimum and/
13:45:38 <Bert> ... We are doing a bit of that, also for alarm point, but not yet high and low alarm points.
13:45:43 <kaz> i|QUDT|-> https://www.qudt.org/pages/QUDToverviewPage.html QUDT Ontologies|
13:45:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:45:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
13:46:06 <Bert> ... That looks like another opportunity for a group to come together and define it.
13:46:39 <Bert> ... CDL Control Description Language has some math functions and logics for control flow.
13:47:02 <Bert> ... It comes with an RDF ontology..
13:47:15 <Bert> ... @@ building specs.
13:47:41 <Bert> ... Real estate core merged with Brics.
13:47:46 <kaz> -> https://www.realestatecore.io RealEstateCore
13:48:01 <Bert> ... We can maybe so a survey of what is available in the workld of real estate,
13:48:15 <kaz> s/@@ building/Building Ontology/
13:48:26 <Bert> ... Also automotive and energy, solar energy.
13:48:32 <kaz> q?
13:48:34 <kaz> q-
13:48:36 <kaz> q+
13:48:57 <Bert> ... All those are candidates for integration.
13:49:26 <Bert> ... With AI and agents, you can then build a functional system.
13:49:42 <Bert> ... Digitial twisn that combine what people are already doing.
13:49:51 <kaz> s/twisn/twins/
13:49:58 <Bert> ... Another exmaple is waste water: what are people doing there?
13:50:23 <Bert> kaz: Your comment implies that our Note should have a section on ontologies.
13:50:57 <Bert> mjk: Yes, it is not always obvious. I think we should go to that level of detail in the Note.
13:51:20 <Bert> kaz: Any more discussion points for toady?
13:52:00 <Bert> ... We can ask @@ to talks about JTC1.
13:52:26 <Bert> ... And lets' continue the survey and talk about use cases.
13:52:43 <Bert> ... I'll find the next date for the May meeting.
13:53:04 <Bert> Linda: I'll sent you ny slides
13:53:31 <kaz> s/@@/Torbjorn, etc./
13:53:46 <kaz> s/JTC1/their work/
13:53:51 <kaz> s/lets'/let's/
13:53:51 <Bert> s/I'll sent you ny slides/I'll send you my slides
13:54:15 <kaz> [adjourned]
13:54:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:54:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html kaz
15:42:01 <Bert> s/collabarotaion/collaboration
15:42:29 <Bert> s/geospation/geospatial
15:42:51 <Bert> s/trafic/traffic
15:43:53 <Bert> s/The use gets/The user gets
15:44:31 <Bert> s/standards format./standard format.
15:44:57 <Bert> s/ ehich/ which
15:45:26 <Bert> s/Inclusing/Including
15:45:45 <Bert> s/repesresntaions/representations
15:46:10 <Bert> s/Webof Things/Web of Things
15:46:56 <Bert> s/comnbined/combined
15:47:43 <Bert> s/form other/from other
15:48:03 <Bert> s/IN the/In the
15:48:22 <Bert> s/fitst/fits
15:48:38 <Bert> s/Sound like/Sounds like
15:48:47 <Bert> s/descreibes/describes
15:49:06 <Bert> s/thgere/there
15:49:45 <Bert> s/In a smart cities/In smart cities
15:50:41 <Bert> s/thatis/that is
15:51:07 <Bert> s/make it easier/makes it easier
15:51:26 <Bert> s/compare to /compared to
15:52:14 <Bert> s/CDL Control Description Language/CDL (Control Description Language)
15:52:52 <Bert> s/so a survey /do a survey
15:53:06 <Bert> s/workld/world
15:53:28 <Bert> s/exmaple/example
15:54:01 <Bert> s/toady/today
15:54:15 <Bert> s/to talks/to talk
15:54:35 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:54:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html Bert
15:55:16 <Bert> present- Bert
15:55:16 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:55:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html Bert
15:56:16 <Bert> s/surveyof/survey of
15:56:40 <Bert> s/towhen/to when
15:56:51 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:56:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html Bert
15:58:56 <Bert> present+ Michael_Koster
15:59:01 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:59:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-smart-cities-minutes.html Bert
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