13:58:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lws
13:58:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-lws-irc
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13:58:45 <acoburn> zakim, start meeting
13:58:45 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:58:47 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), acoburn
13:58:54 <acoburn> meeting: Linked Web Storage
13:59:02 <acoburn> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-lws-minutes.html acoburn
13:59:25 <acoburn> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/06-lws-minutes.html
13:59:36 <acoburn> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/04/20-lws-minutes.html
13:59:37 <pchampin> present+
13:59:44 <termontwouter> termontwouter has joined #lws
13:59:48 <acoburn> chair: ericP
13:59:48 <gibsonf1> gibsonf1 has joined #lws
13:59:55 <ericP> present+
14:00:17 <acoburn> present_
14:00:20 <acoburn> present+
14:00:50 <eBremer> present+
14:00:53 <eBremer> scribe+
14:01:15 <gibsonf1> present+
14:02:22 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #lws
14:02:34 <ericP> Zakim, take up agendaum 1
14:02:34 <Zakim> 'um\ 1' does not match any agenda item, ericP
14:02:39 <ericP> Zakim, take up agendum 1
14:02:39 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions and announcements -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:02:43 <bendm> bendm has joined #lws
14:03:05 <laurens> laurens has joined #lws
14:03:18 <laurens> present+
14:03:31 <bendm> present+
14:04:15 <eBremer> ericP: welcome and introductions
14:05:09 <jeswr> jeswr has joined #lws
14:05:13 <jeswr> jeswr+
14:05:17 <jeswr> present+
14:05:37 <eBremer> jeswr: running inperson lws wg f2f
14:05:40 <TallTed> present+
14:05:50 <eBremer> ... hackathon in parallel 27th and 28th
14:06:03 <eBremer> .. if you want to help mentor...contact Jesse
14:06:05 <acoburn> q+ to ask about remote joining information
14:06:16 <ericP> ack next
14:06:17 <Zakim> acoburn, you wanted to ask about remote joining information
14:06:18 <eBremer> ... symposium Thursday and Friday of that week
14:06:36 <eBremer> acoburn: people can join remotely for f2f
14:06:46 <RazaN> RazaN has joined #lws
14:06:50 <ryey> ryey has joined #lws
14:06:53 <ryey> present+
14:06:56 <RazaN> present+
14:07:01 <eBremer> ... pchampin if you can add to the agenda the zoom link
14:07:15 <ericP> q?
14:07:16 <eBremer> pchampin: i cant take of that
14:07:21 <elf-pavlik> I arrive to London on 25th, is there an option to join as an observer?
14:07:28 <eBremer> ericP: any other annoucements or intros?
14:07:38 <ericP> Zakim, take up next agendum
14:07:38 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Agenda for F2F #121 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:08:07 <eBremer> ... agenda in a PR#121
14:08:07 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/PR/issues/121 -> PR#121
14:08:32 <eBremer> acoburn: high priority things I want to front load
14:09:10 <eBremer> ... starting point.  keep in mind ordering for remote people
14:09:28 <eBremer> ... we wont be getting to TR status in time...so rechartering...
14:09:34 <eBremer> ... what will that process look like
14:09:38 <eBremer> ... goals? scope?
14:09:50 <eBremer> ... dont want to take up whole day
14:09:54 <ericP> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/09/linked-web-storage-wg-charter.html Linked Web Storage Working Group Charter
14:10:04 <eBremer> ... we have recommendation track which need significant work to make sure they all land
14:10:27 <eBremer> ... Access requests, Type Index, Notifications, test suite
14:10:42 <eBremer> ... a lot of feed back on ARs.  some on TI
14:10:55 <eBremer> ... I would like to move all of them along
14:11:12 <eBremer> ...we will need a test suite.  implementations not part of this
14:11:28 <eBremer> ... ODI has been taking some of this work on
14:11:44 <ericP> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/106 LWS Access Requests and Access Grants
14:11:45 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/106 -> Pull Request 106 Add editors draft for LWS Access Requests and Access Grants (by acoburn)
14:11:49 <eBremer> ... those are things we have committee to that need work
14:12:06 <eBremer> ... couple of items in our recommendation track that aren't fully clarified
14:12:12 <eBremer> ... spend some time working through those
14:12:22 <ericP> -> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/115 Type Index Section
14:12:23 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/115 -> Pull Request 115 add Type Index Section (by ebremer)
14:12:32 <AZ> AZ has joined #lws
14:12:37 <AZ> present+
14:12:39 <eBremer> ... some non-rec documents that need some attention
14:12:43 <termontwouter> present+
14:12:51 <eBremer> ... primer, best practices...
14:13:00 <eBremer> ... a solid compatibility document
14:13:26 <eBremer> ... dont necessarily need them right away, possibly push that out a bit further
14:13:39 <ericP> -> https://w3c.github.io/lws-ucs/spec/ UC&R doc
14:13:52 <eBremer> ... PR just a proposal.  any suggestions changes?
14:13:57 <ericP> q?
14:14:33 <ryey> q+
14:14:36 <eBremer> ... anything remote people would prefer to see morning or afternoon?
14:14:44 <ericP> ack next
14:15:11 <eBremer> ryey: I'll be joinung froim UTC +8.  I will be able to attend mornings and early afternoon
14:15:26 <eBremer> ... thats restriction from my side
14:15:40 <eBremer> ... interested in AR, TI, notification for the first day
14:15:44 <gibsonf1> q+
14:16:26 <eBremer> acoburn: would like to timebox feature section to an hour
14:17:01 <eBremer> ... Rui we dont need to restrict and can adjust things around as needed
14:17:02 <ericP> ack next
14:17:28 <eBremer> ggibsonf1: I'm california time
14:17:35 <eBremer> ... after lunch will be easier
14:17:55 <eBremer> ... what happens when container is both container and data resource
14:18:19 <eBremer> ... what happens when a get is done on it?
14:18:49 <bendm> q+ to suggest to move terminology/container vs resource first
14:18:55 <eBremer> acoburn: I do think this is terminology.  Can they be bother?  is a disjoint set?  My understanding it is, but it will require a group discussion
14:19:21 <eBremer> s/ggibsonf1/gibsonf1
14:19:34 <ericP> ack next
14:19:35 <Zakim> bendm, you wanted to suggest to move terminology/container vs resource first
14:19:52 <eBremer> bendm: suggestion to move this point to first day after lunch
14:20:01 <eBremer> ... since it affects many things
14:21:28 <eBremer> ryey: TI after lunch is fine
14:21:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:22:03 <eBremer> acoburn: we can adjust on the day as well
14:22:09 <eBremer> ... just dont want to miss anything major
14:22:37 <ericP> Zakim, take up next agendum
14:22:37 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Vocabularies #112 -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:22:54 <TallTed> s/present_//
14:22:56 <TallTed> s/jeswr+//
14:23:07 <laurens> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/112
14:23:07 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/112 -> MERGED Pull Request 112 feat(vocab): setup yml2vocab for managing the LWS vocabulary and json-ld context (by laurensdeb) [editorial]
14:23:13 <eBremer> laurens: vocabularies relates to PR and took the liberty to merge it #112
14:23:14 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/112 -> MERGED Pull Request 112 feat(vocab): setup yml2vocab for managing the LWS vocabulary and json-ld context (by laurensdeb) [editorial]
14:23:26 <eBremer> ... non-normative document for LWS
14:23:36 <eBremer> ... creates as turtle and json-ld.  all non-normative
14:23:52 <eBremer> ... update to github actions for how gh pages have been built
14:24:06 <eBremer> ... we have context and vocabulary now being built
14:24:09 <pchampin> q+
14:24:15 <TallTed> i/welcome and introductions/agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/a19ab7dc-1753-433d-bac5-64e3ad8c0a43/20260413T100000/
14:24:19 <ericP> ack next
14:24:20 <laurens>  ack pchampin
14:24:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-lws-minutes.html TallTed
14:24:32 <eBremer> ... we need a WG decision to publish that non-normative vocab and context
14:24:57 <eBremer> pchampin: we need decision to publish the HTML doc or rendering for some reason
14:25:06 <eBremer> laurens: will remove from my proposal
14:25:25 <laurens> PROPOSAL: The LWS WG shall publish the non-normative LWS Vocabularies as FPWD documents: https://w3c.github.io/lws-protocol/lws-10-vocab/
14:25:35 <eBremer> ... we weill have straw poll on the publication of LWS voab HTML
14:25:41 <pchampin> s/for some reason/. For some reason the TTL and JSON-LD context artifacts are not covered by the W3C process.
14:25:50 <laurens> +1
14:25:51 <eBremer> +1
14:25:51 <acoburn> +1
14:25:53 <ericP> +1
14:25:54 <ryey> +1
14:25:56 <jeswr> +1
14:25:57 <TallTed> +1
14:25:59 <pchampin> +1
14:26:07 <pchampin> q+
14:26:14 <bendm> +1
14:26:30 <gibsonf1> +1
14:26:38 <AZ> +0 (I need to take a closer look to it)
14:26:48 <eBremer> tallted: resolution should include a date stamp on the documents
14:26:48 <ericP> ack next
14:27:20 <laurens> RESOLVED: The LWS WG shall publish the non-normative LWS Vocabularies as draft note documents in their state as of 2026-04-13: https://w3c.github.io/lws-protocol/lws-10-vocab/index.html
14:27:20 <bendm> q+
14:27:20 <eBremer> ericP: anyone else want to vote?  issues?
14:27:31 <ericP> ack next
14:27:47 <eBremer> bendm: I have tech questions I will put in as an issue
14:28:20 <eBremer> ... voc adds the domain of LWS container to activity streams ...doesnt feel clean to me...
14:28:35 <pchampin> q+
14:28:44 <eBremer> laurens: have discussion to reference or include a choice we will have to make
14:28:55 <ericP> ack next
14:29:18 <eBremer> pchampin: yaml to vocab tool developed in-house by Ivan Hermann from W3C
14:29:26 <eBremer> ... we can ask for adjustments
14:29:36 <laurens> s/https://w3c.github.io/lws-protocol/lws-10-vocab/index.html/https://w3c.github.io/lws-protocol/lws10-vocab/index.html/
14:29:49 <AZ> s/Hermann/Herman
14:30:03 <ericP> Zakim, take up next agendum
14:30:03 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Access Request Proposal #106: Open questions -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:31:09 <eBremer> acoburn: any questions?
14:31:18 <bendm> nevermind my comment on vocab, I manually interpreted the yaml file as if it would create the actual rdfs:domain triples in the ttl file, but it doesn't, so my issue is no longer valid
14:32:21 <eBremer> acoburn: should we remove 7.3 Endpoint Authorization?
14:32:42 <eBremer> ... will go into security guidance anything.  dont know if we actually need 7.3
14:32:51 <bendm> +1 to remove, I prefer best practices than prematurely limiting future usage
14:32:56 <eBremer> +1 to removal
14:33:00 <ryey> +1 to removal
14:35:13 <eBremer> acoburn: 6.2 actions - in core of lws we define read, modify, create, delete...
14:35:23 <eBremer> ... jesse suggested adding append
14:35:23 <gibsonf1> q+ to ask about target
14:36:06 <eBremer> acoburn: I would suggest not unless its just bytes
14:36:16 <eBremer> ... would require deeper parsing for other types
14:36:25 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #lws
14:36:36 <ericP> ack next
14:36:37 <Zakim> gibsonf, you wanted to ask about target
14:36:44 <eBremer> ... doesnt mean you can never have append
14:37:19 <eBremer> gibsonf1: on the target, your including the URI for the resource and also having to tell the resource what kind it is.  not understanding...
14:39:10 <eBremer> gibson: easier to indicate the relation youre looking for rather than having to force
14:39:18 <eBremer> s/gibson/gibsonf1
14:39:59 <eBremer> acoburn: idea is that when you give access to container but everything inside the container
14:40:07 <eBremer> ... how they work in many other contexts
14:40:41 <eBremer> ... if you give access to individual resources, it wouldn't include anything else
14:41:47 <eBremer> gibsonf1: in the storage approach, you would give access to full hierarchy, but consider the that someone could have rights to the container but not the children
14:42:05 <eBremer> acoburn: suggest commenting on PR to accommodate what you are saying
14:42:31 <eBremer> ... Ben brought up a couple of times in the reviews but has not been fully integrated here...
14:42:38 <TallTed> q+
14:42:46 <eBremer> ... hard connection between JSON-LD and this data model
14:42:55 <eBremer> ... there could be other serializations
14:42:58 <ericP> ack next
14:43:17 <eBremer> tallted: Ive heard and read in past couple of days, people dont want to do X because it will break stuff
14:43:36 <eBremer> ... implementations that call themselves LWS aren't really
14:44:07 <eBremer> ... I want to be really careful that we dont say we cant do X, which is the best idea because it will break stuff
14:44:09 <ericP> Zakim, take up next agendum
14:44:09 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Type Index Proposal #115: Clarification of scope -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:44:28 <ericP> scrbe+
14:44:33 <ericP> scribe+
14:44:41 <pchampin> s/scrbe+/
14:44:51 <ericP> eBremer: current proposal PR#115
14:44:51 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/PR/issues/115 -> PR#115
14:45:09 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/115
14:45:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/lws-protocol/pull/115 -> Pull Request 115 add Type Index Section (by ebremer)
14:45:16 <ericP> ... happy to change the name to distinguish from the SOLID Type Index implementation
14:45:34 <pchampin> s|https://github.com/w3c/PR/issues/115 -> PR#115|
14:45:40 <ericP> ... this index is a union of what you're allowed to see based on your credentials
14:46:08 <ericP> ... deref gives you the URIs and the total items (that you're allowed to see)
14:46:40 <ericP> gibsonf1 suggested loosening to allow non-HTTP-link-headers
14:47:25 <ericP> gibsonf1, i disagreed on the ordering. you suggested search before types but I view types as orientation that then informs search
14:47:40 <acoburn> q+ to ask that everyone familiarize themselves with this and other proposals before the f2f mtg
14:47:58 <ericP> s/gibsonf1, i disagreed on the ordering. you suggested search before types but I view types as orientation that then informs search/ebremer: gibsonf1, i disagreed on the ordering. you suggested search before types but I view types as orientation that then informs search
14:48:11 <ericP> gibsonf1: we have search without types
14:48:40 <ericP> ... we could query types but just add other query parms to ehance to their desired expressivity
14:48:52 <ericP> eBremer: sure; happy with extensibility
14:49:12 <ericP> ack next
14:49:13 <Zakim> acoburn, you wanted to ask that everyone familiarize themselves with this and other proposals before the f2f mtg
14:49:48 <ericP> acoburn: we want to reach consensus at the f2f to please read up in the next two weeks
14:50:08 <eBremer> acoburn: please familiarize yourself with the proposals so we can come to consensus at the f2f
14:50:11 <ericP> ... we should know if we're going to take these features to CR
14:50:20 <ericP> q?
14:50:30 <ericP> scribe-
14:50:34 <eBremer> scribe+
14:50:46 <ericP> zakim, take up next agendum
14:50:46 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Issue triage -- taken up [from agendabot]
14:52:10 <eBremer> acoburn: please review issues and respond if you have any thoughts
14:52:47 <ericP> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:52:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-lws-minutes.html ericP
14:52:58 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:53:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/13-lws-minutes.html pchampin
14:53:53 <ericP> ericP has left #lws
14:55:08 <acoburn> ACTION: pchampin will add a video link to the f2f calendar pages
14:55:16 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe pchampin will add a video link is not a valid user for w3c/lws-protocol?
14:58:38 <acoburn> acoburn has left #lws