13:58:14 RRSAgent has joined #me 13:58:19 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-irc 13:58:19 Zakim has joined #me 13:58:53 Meeting: Media & Entertainment Interest Group 13:58:57 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f61979af-ab49-43a8-a35c-30b92c2e1571/20260407T150000/ 14:00:19 ohmata has joined #me 14:00:41 kaz has joined #me 14:01:44 song has joined #me 14:02:08 wschildbach has joined #me 14:02:13 present+ 14:02:17 present+ 14:02:43 present+ Song Xu, Wolfgang Schildbach, Chris Needham, Bernd Czelhan, Kazuyuki Ashimua, Shunsuke Iwamura, Hisayuki Ohmata, Paul Adenot, Hiroki Endo, Niko Farber, Rob Smith 14:02:49 rrsagent, make log public 14:02:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-minutes.html kaz 14:03:01 Chair: Song Xu, Chris Needham, Wolfgang Schildbach 14:03:01 scribe+ cpn 14:03:45 present+ Francois Daoust 14:03:58 walk through of the use case and req. document 14:04:08 scribe+ song 14:04:11 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2026Apr/0003.html 14:04:54 two topics: webtransport API entering final stage. looking for wide review feedback 14:05:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:05:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-minutes.html kaz 14:05:35 in web app., ppl. has experience to using it. 14:05:49 sugeestions for changes or improvement is very welcome on webTransport 14:06:04 Group set a deadline, end of this month. 14:06:13 https://www.w3.org/TR/webtransport/ 14:06:18 present- song 14:06:32 present- wschildbach 14:06:36 Video delivery and streaming in combination with Web Codex for lower latency 14:06:44 https://github.com/w3c/ColorWeb-CG/blob/main/hdr-big-picture.md 14:06:49 present+ Atsushi Shimono 14:06:52 Niko has joined #me 14:06:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:06:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-minutes.html kaz 14:07:00 https://github.com/SMPTE/st2094-50 14:07:09 The spec there, follow the spec through to Github issues, ppl to send feedback. 14:07:22 A couple od doc for review and feedback 14:07:41 You're an HDR speciallist, doc interesting for you. 14:07:45 RobSmith has joined #me 14:08:06 Might need to be adapted to support HDR. including sort of canvas, and CSS 14:08:28 processing model for it is going through simply spec. 14:08:50 sort of proposed a necessarily unless anybody has sort of clarifying questions. 14:09:09 For the color stuff, recommend joning thit on the web community 14:09:31 leave a bit of time at the end if AOB 14:09:50 Topic: Next Generation Audio 14:09:53 scribe+ cpn 14:09:58 Next Generation Audio. Wolfgang will lead it. 14:10:14 Wolfgang: The document is a group draft note 14:10:15 thanks 14:10:24 ... I suggest opening the document as I talk you through it 14:10:34 ... I have a presentation too that summarises the document 14:11:29 ... https://w3c.github.io/me-next-generation-audio 14:11:48 i|walk through|topic: Announcements| 14:11:59 ... As some history, we decided in TPAC to make a Group Note 14:12:07 ... Made a draft in December 14:12:29 ... I'm hoping we can have a call for consensus 14:13:16 ... The Note has use cases, requirements, gap analysis, and privacy considerations 14:13:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:13:32 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-minutes.html kaz 14:13:46 ... What use cases do we want to enable? Dolby and Fraunhofer have developed this together 14:13:55 ... And what would an API need to provide? 14:14:26 ... The requirements describes cross-cutting concerns, e.g., it should work for all codecs 14:14:46 ... The gap analysis answers why we think existing APIs can't be used to support the use cases 14:15:03 ... The privacy considerations is a collection of thoughts, regarding privacy implications 14:15:26 ... Please interrupt to ask questions 14:16:14 ... The first use case is selecting a preselection. Interacting with the gain or volume, e.g., to increase the dialog 14:16:42 ... Related is position interactivity, where you could put the dialog in a position where it doesn't overlap other audio elements 14:17:14 ... Then, selecting individual audio elements in the mix. e.g., musical instruments to apply gain to them 14:17:25 ... Another is where all these elements are controlled in conjunction 14:17:42 ... The document has more detail 14:18:21 ... Requirements - the first is to be codec agnostic. We're not asking for an API that's specific to one company's codec 14:18:47 ... It should work for protected media. If the API only works in non-protected use cases, we think it doesn't solve the commercially relevant use cases 14:19:14 ... It should work where there are multiple media streams. At a minimum, you'll have audio and video. (By the way, some of these concepts could also apply to video) 14:19:39 ... With multiple audio streams, the personalisation can apply to one of those, so apply to the media stream, not just the device 14:20:08 ... Controls should happen in realtime. If a user selects a specific preselection, they want it to be active right away, no perceivable latency 14:20:52 ... Non-blocking hardware access: what we mean is that users will interact with the media, as it plays, and the APIs should be asynchronous, and not require waiting until a presentation is done. It should be async to the media playback 14:21:15 ... Gap Analysis. In meetings so far, we were asked to explain why existing web APIs can't be used 14:21:58 ... There's HTMLMediaElement, WebCodecs, e.g., in conjunction with AudioNode. Or implement it all in WASM or JS? 14:22:55 ... HTMLMediaElement has an audioTracks attribute. It could conceivably be used to select audio preselections. But doing this confuses tracks and preselections. Some subtle problems are described in the Note 14:23:15 ... Some audio tracks have very few attributes, e.g., language and kind, not enough to select by the user 14:23:38 ... Selection semantics may not work, selecting audio tracks is mutually exclusive and may not work for preselections 14:24:05 ... Use WebCodecs and AudioNodes to mix and process the result? A limitation here is that WebCodecs output is in the clear, and AudioNode input is in the clear 14:24:46 ... So would work for non-protected content. And no object audio support. If we want to support spatial and object audio, moving it in space, it would have to be built in. It's not available today. 14:25:23 ... If the pipeline is built by the application developer, the content creator has no control of the end result. This is important to creatives to ensure their product is presented 14:26:07 ... JS and WASM implementations have a performance concern. It might work on a PC, but not on a TV set. Battery life is related to performance limitations. Also this doesn't work with content protection 14:27:48 ... Finally, the privacy considerations. It's hard to compartmentalise these. Everything comes down to fingerprinting mechanisms. Not all of these are really germane to this API, they apply to any new API. For example, if the API is supported on one platform but not others, that's fingerprinting surface. It might also provide information about the 14:27:48 media the user consumes 14:28:27 ... That might happen, through same-origin information leakage. If you open a media stream and query what's available, or what the default is, it might leak information about the user's default 14:28:48 ... If the user sets preferences and those are shared between sessions, another session might query those set in the first session. 14:29:34 ... This might happen implicitly, e.g., a smart implementation might pre-filter the personalisation options available against some preferences. So if you are able to get at the list of pre-filtered choices, it reveals something about what was filtered out 14:29:46 ... These are considerations for implementers 14:30:03 ... Data persistence, as preselection choices might persist beyond one session 14:30:32 ... Any questions? 14:31:11 (none) 14:31:16 ... Can we do the CfC? 14:31:34 Paul: Might need some wider exposure on the mailing list. So stakeholders can read through it 14:33:09 Is there a relevant audio CG from which we could seek feedback? 14:33:41 In essence, IG cannot publish spec. we could go through the same process as WG 14:35:26 The mental model would be if a browser implementer looks at it, the doc expose enough info. 14:35:27 q+ 14:37:03 Chris: Is the document comprehensive, in terms of which codecs it includes? We've had a liaison in Media WG on 3GPP 14:37:13 s/3GPP/3GPP IVAS/ 14:37:27 in terms of the set of codecs that it's considering, the next generation audio codecs describing in the group note. like 3GPP EVAS 14:37:54 API approach would work across all of those codecs 14:38:07 Chris: So we could reach out to those groups 14:39:31 q+ RobSmith 14:39:37 q- later 14:39:38 Bernd: Could we make a list? We could put a first version out there? 14:40:59 RobSmith: A suggestion, would putting together a demo be a good idea, to show how it works? It invites others to review how it fits their own model 14:42:20 Wolfgang: We've made demos, e.g., one at a previous TPAC 14:43:00 Bernd: There are standards around world using NGA with a certain toolset. We could do another demo, but I feel we don't make progress on the formal status of this note 14:44:08 Wolfgang: We'll need support of browser vendors, so that will need demos. I don't think demos progress the Group Note 14:47:04 q+ PaulAdenot 14:47:07 ack R 14:47:10 q- later 14:47:22 -> https://github.com/w3c/webcodecs/issues/41 Support for content protection in WebCodecs 14:48:57 q? 14:49:20 Paul: Worth reading the WebCodecs issue on protection in WebCodecs 14:49:44 q+ RobSmith 14:49:48 ack P 14:49:50 q- later 14:50:23 Rob: WebVMT was published as a Note 3 years ago, the process we used was to invite a 6 or 8 week deadline, and advertising it. I got some good feedback 14:51:22 ack R 14:52:45 q+ 14:54:29 q- 14:59:17 cpn: I think next step is getting stakeholders feedback 14:59:28 i/cpn: I think/scribe+ tidoust/ 14:59:31 q+ 14:59:41 ... and then do the formal publication later on. 15:01:08 wolfgang: I'll send this around and set a deadline for review. 4-6 weeks. 15:01:19 ... It's understood that we need to have more discussions with implementers. 15:02:53 q- 15:05:27 Kaz: As Rob mentioned, there's a chicken and egg question. Asking Audio WG makes sense. The requirements in Section 4 is broader than Web Audio. So I suggest we ask the other W3C groups, like WoT and Voice Interaction for comments also. Voice Interaction guys organised a workshop on smart voice agents, and discussion included time synchronisation. 15:05:27 Talking with them would make sense 15:05:46 -> https://www.w3.org/2025/10/smartagents-workshop/report.html fyi, report from the Smart Voice Agents Workshohp 15:06:07 s/The requirements/However, the requirements/ 15:06:10 Topic: Next meeting 15:07:22 Chris: It's scheduled for 5 May, but I'll be away 15:08:07 s/synchronisation/synchronisation among multiple data streams/ 15:09:46 q- 15:09:46 [adjourned] 15:16:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:16:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/04/07-me-minutes.html cpn 18:05:44 cabanier has joined #me 18:28:12 Zakim has left #me