16:01:39 RRSAgent has joined #tt 16:01:43 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-irc 16:01:43 RRSAgent, make logs Public 16:01:44 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 16:02:02 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/330 16:02:05 scribe: nigel 16:02:07 Chair: Nigel 16:02:16 Regrets: Gary, Cyril 16:02:20 cpn has joined #tt 16:02:24 scribe+ cpn 16:02:26 Present: Andreas, Nigel, Chris 16:02:38 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/03/12-tt-minutes.html 16:02:44 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:02:52 atai has joined #tt 16:03:31 present+ Atsushi 16:04:26 Topic: This meeting 16:04:55 actually, picked up 20years-old-ish earphone from storage... (that's only one 3.5mm 4pin in hand...) 16:05:39 Nigel: There's a discussion on carrying multiple related resources, I'd like to talk about 16:06:01 s/There's/On DAPT, there's/ 16:07:18 Nigel: On IMSC, I've been looking at open issues, and updates on review feedback 16:07:22 Nigel: Anything else? 16:07:35 Chris: There's a new proposed addition to Media Session API, in Media WG 16:07:41 Andreas: Nothing from me 16:07:52 Topic: DAPT 16:08:34 Subtopic: Delivering DAPT with audio recordings w3c/dapt#335 16:09:00 -> https://github.com/w3c/dapt/discussions/335 Link to Discussion page 16:09:27 Nigel: This is relates to the at-risk features in DAPT 16:10:01 ... If you've created a script, and audio recordings for it, that you need to deliver at the same time as the DAPT, the DAPT could embed them (as base 64, which is verbose) 16:10:32 ... or, you could have a package that you deliver with a DAPT document with audio recordings as separate files, referenced from the DAPT 16:10:50 ... or, you could host the audio recordings at a URL, and reference the URLs from the DAPT 16:11:37 ... Those are the main options. I sense that in a B2B client/supplier relationship, you wouldn't normally refer to a URL in the DAPT file, you'd want to deliver the assets 16:11:46 ... Which suggests a bundle or package format 16:12:05 ... I opened the discussion to get feedback, particularly in a broadcaster environment 16:12:07 q+ 16:12:54 ... I talked with technical architects at the BBC about this. They said base64 encoding sounds like a bad idea. They thought hosting at a URL in a delivery context, wouldn't be sensible, but it would in the context of delivery to the public 16:13:08 ... This leaves having a package format. What should that look like? 16:13:31 ... If a tar file, for example, could we have a hash value for the resource, to be able to check the integrity of the resources 16:14:05 ... They also raised the idea that you might want to send an update or amendment. For example, a script with 20 recordings and you just want to update one recording. Should you be able to send the one thing that change? 16:14:45 ... This idea exists in other places in the broadcast chain, and it can cause pain, if not implemented nicely 16:14:47 q? 16:15:24 Andreas: To transport audio inside the DAPT document seems not a good idea to me 16:15:53 ... If the concrete delivery workflow is in scope for DAPT itself. The DAPT needs the means to realise workflows, but how it's done is up to users 16:16:35 ... Is there much difference, you could use a relative URL for a file or an absolute URL to a server? Adding a hash reference for integrity would be a general question for any file referenced in the DAPT document 16:17:05 Nigel: The hash document came from a reviewer who mentioned subresource integrity, in the context of HTML documents referencing other resources 16:17:16 ... We could adopt that, if it gets to Recommendation 16:17:29 ... Agree DAPT should have the tools needed. 16:17:45 ... If we think embedding in DAPT is not a good idea, we can make the spec smaller 16:18:10 Pierre: +1 16:18:22 +1 16:18:55 Chris: I tend to think there should be just one way to do it, so referencing an external file 16:19:22 Nigel: Then, there are data URLs that could also be used to embed 16:20:08 ... A follow up question, where should delivery specifications be defined? We could create a WG Note, or see what people do in practice, or leave to other organisations to write 16:20:23 ... I don't think we need anything normative, especially in the DAPT spec 16:21:04 Andreas: The user community could discuss how to use the standard, and agree on best practices. Then, who'd publish? Similar to other specs. But in the past we haven't made recommendations, and left it to other organisations 16:21:43 Nigel: Taking out the embedded audio at-risk feature, is getting higher on the to-do list 16:21:53 Nigel: Anything else to add? 16:22:02 (Nothing) 16:22:04 Topic: IMSC 1.3 16:22:36 Subtopic: Rec transition request 16:22:48 Nigel: I issued the WG decision notification by email, to request transition 16:23:12 ... Since then, Atsushi has been looking at the feedback received, and the action we took 16:23:33 ... There's a concern we may have made a change to the document to address APA WG feedback, but we haven't had confirmation they're happy with it 16:24:24 Atsushi: I haven't filed the transition request yet, but it's with me to do 16:25:46 Nigel: Two things about the APA WG feedback. First, we did agree what kind of change would be appropriate, when we discussed at TPAC. Second, what we implemented was informative and editorial, and as discussed. So from my point of view, there's no reason to wait to send the transition request, when you have time 16:27:00 Atsushi: I will find some time to raise the transition request 16:27:57 Nigel: The other action was to raise a PR on w3c/ns. There's no rush to do that, and the transition request should come first 16:28:19 -> https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/334 Raise PR on w3c/ns to add IMSC 1.3 namespace document 16:29:18 Atsushi: I need to check, on what should be included in the document. Some discussion may follow on opening the PR, but I'll handle that 16:29:53 ... I don't think there's a fully well-documented requirement for the document contents to go in the namespace URI 16:30:03 Nigel: Better to serve something than nothing 16:30:32 Atsushi: Some tooling to retrieve the URIs or DTDs, but I don't think we have tooling in the timed text area 16:30:41 Nigel: I don't think we need that, no 16:31:00 Subtopic: Issues and review feedback 16:31:21 -> https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/524#issuecomment-4128606475 Nigel's comment on the APA WG comment about semantic layers 16:32:03 Nigel: I took an action to summarise what the group thinks, based on our discussion 16:32:48 ... Any feedback on that or suggestions to change, we can look at. I think we feel nothing needed in IMSC. While semantic layers are useful, it's about finding the right place to do it 16:33:17 Pierre: And having the right requirements. If there's a case for driving specific presentation semantics at playback, we'd definitely consider that 16:33:25 or, we may ask them to move this issue from IMSC place into DAPT space or somewhere else?? 16:33:46 Nigel: There's one layering we do support, which is 'forced'. One proposal is to deprecate that, given there's a better way to do it 16:33:48 q+ 16:34:09 Pierre: Also xml:lang is semantically relevant, because it allows renderers to pick the right font set, and track, and behaviour 16:34:30 ... I think until we have concrete use cases, it's not a valuable exercise 16:34:57 ack at 16:35:11 Andreas: The last comment from APA WG was 5 years ago, so no activity since then? 16:35:21 q+ for or, we may ask them to move this issue from IMSC place into DAPT space or somewhere else?? 16:35:40 Nigel: We discussed it in person in September 2024, then again in TPAC 2025 16:35:45 (suppose I should do as this rather than random comment.....) 16:36:10 Nigel: Not sure how long to leave it... 16:36:11 Pierre: I think we can close this 16:36:27 Nigel: If people have things to add, they can re-open it or open a new issue 16:37:01 github: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/524 16:37:34 SUMMARY: Issue to be closed in a week, if no more comments 16:37:38 github-bot, end topic 16:38:33 Nigel: We have 4 open errata issues. 16:40:09 Atsushi: Tooling requires open issues. We may change the tooling to look at open and closed issues. But as it's an old publication (these issues are errata for 1.1, and the errate document may be stable). Update the document with errrata, to be included in the Recommendation itself. Or we may create an errata from script into a static HTML document 16:40:26 Nigel: I like the second option. We're not doing more work on IMSC 1.1, so very unlikely to have new errata 16:40:51 Atsushi: Creating a static HTML document should be fine to do 16:41:21 ... Please create an issue to track this 16:41:58 s/errate/errata/ 16:42:53 -> https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/336 Investigate moving the errata for imsc1.1 to a static HTML document w3c/ttwg#336 16:43:13 Nigel: Anything else to discuss on IMSC? 16:43:19 (Nothing) 16:43:34 Topic: AOB - Message Session 16:43:52 Chris: May be too soon to discuss, I'm flagging for attention. 16:43:57 https://github.com/w3c/mediasession/issues/370 16:44:26 Chris: This is a proposal coming from someone at Google to add transcripts to media session metadata. 16:44:56 .. Instead of custom captions, add transcripts to the media session metadata, in multiple languages etc. 16:45:05 .. Usable for a variety of purposes. 16:45:15 .. Proposal to gather feedback, before a follow-up PR. 16:45:24 .. No feedback so far, but he's created the PR anyway. 16:45:34 .. My feedback: Text Track is already a thing, why invent a new thing? 16:45:58 .. A browser can do this already if there are Text Tracks, and surface them for a Media Session. 16:46:04 .. I am hoping for more rationale. 16:46:18 .. I thought it relevant here that they're discussing the display of captions and transcripts 16:46:37 .. in a Media Session context, which is typically managed by the browser, including the UI, 16:46:42 .. and outside the document. 16:46:55 .. It raises lots of questions about the UI surface, and what the rendering looks like, 16:46:58 .. and how to control it. 16:47:14 .. There's no real detail behind this yet, which is why I thought it might be too early to flag. 16:47:40 Nigel: When would the Media Session API be used? 16:47:55 Chris: On a mobile device, for example, you're playing media and you're in the lock screen, 16:48:01 .. it can put up media transport controls. 16:48:22 .. The main use case is things like being able to play/pause/stop media playback without the page being visible, 16:48:40 .. or for handling keyboard keys for play/pause/stop, routing them to the current media element. 16:48:57 .. In general it is all about providing native controls for interacting with media specific content in the page. 16:49:20 .. My suggestion is to wait until we have more detail around rationale and then use that to ask more questions. 16:50:05 Nigel: I agree, I don't understand why Text Track isn't suitable for this, 16:50:18 .. but if there are requirements that it doesn't meet, we should learn what they are! 16:50:45 Chris: Related, there's a chapter information feature that was added to Media Session, which also 16:51:00 .. overlaps with Text Track @kind="chapter" but they want images as well as title. 16:51:04 s/title/titles 16:51:19 .. That's something you can do, set thumbnail images for the media, e.g. for the current track that's playing. 16:51:38 .. It's a separate but parallel chapters thing that you can also kind of do with Text Tracks already. 16:52:14 Nigel: Yes, people already do thumbnails with Text Tracks but I don't think I've ever seen a Rec track 16:52:19 .. specification for it. 16:52:38 Chris: Yes. Awaiting more explanation. 16:53:45 Topic: Meeting close 16:54:56 Nigel: Next meeting is 2026-04-23 https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/332 16:55:09 Nigel: The next call is in 4 week's time. There's a proposal to discuss a WebVTT issue 16:55:57 [Adjourned] 16:56:29 s/[/Thanks everyone [ 16:56:36 rrsagent, make minutes 16:56:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:57:05 s/Thanks/.. Thanks 16:57:06 rrsagent, make minutes 16:57:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:57:31 s/ actually, picked up 20years-old-ish earphone from storage... (that's only one 3.5mm 4pin in hand...)// 16:57:39 rrsagent, make minutes 16:57:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:58:03 s/actually, picked up 20years-old-ish earphone from storage... (that's only one 3.5mm 4pin in hand...)//g 16:58:05 rrsagent, make minutes 16:58:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:59:02 s|s/ actually, picked up 20years-old-ish earphone from storage... (that's only one 3.5mm 4pin in hand...)//|| 16:59:03 rrsagent, make minutes 16:59:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:59:50 Adam_Page has joined #tt 17:01:09 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 17:01:13 zakim, end meeting 17:01:14 As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Nigel, Chris, Atsushi 17:01:16 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:01:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html Zakim 17:01:24 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 17:01:24 Zakim has left #tt 17:01:29 rrsagent, excuse us 17:01:29 I see no action items 17:04:28 RRSAgent has joined #tt 17:04:28 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-irc 17:04:38 Present+ Pierre 17:04:42 rrsagent, make minutes 17:04:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:05:06 rrsagent, excuse us 17:05:15 rrsagent, make logs public 17:05:17 rrsagent, excuse us 17:05:17 I see no action items