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16:00:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/03/25-aria-at-irc
16:00:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:00:17 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
16:00:36 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group
16:02:35 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike has joined #aria-at
16:03:34 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
16:03:37 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
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16:05:27 <lola> present+
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16:06:17 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Review agenda and next meeting dates
16:06:19 <jugglinmike> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/March-25%2C-2026-Agenda
16:07:44 <Joe_Humbert> present+
16:07:55 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Requests for changes to agenda?
16:08:05 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Hearing none, we'll stick with the agenda as scheduled
16:08:58 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Next CG meeting: Wednesday April 8
16:09:57 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria-at
16:15:35 <lola> That's awesome!
16:16:52 <jugglinmike> Topic: Current interop reporting status
16:17:14 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Our primary goal is to surface up-to-date, usable interop data in (at this point in time) JAWS, NVDA, and VoiceOver
16:17:41 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I've been working on getting one more plan into the third phase that we call "candidate review" where we will discuss it with implementers
16:17:57 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I ran into a technical problem in our infrastructure, but I'm able to work around it for now
16:18:03 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is for the "switch" test plan
16:18:15 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Next, we'll be talking about the "quantity spin button" test plan
16:18:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Hopefully, I'll be figuring out how to get two more test plans ready for "draft review" before the next meeting in two week's time
16:19:33 <jugglinmike> Topic: Execution of quantity spin button test plan
16:19:51 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: dean and mmoss are working on this currently, Joe_Humbert has worked on it in the past
16:20:17 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The VoiceOver testing is almost complete. There are eight conflicting results at the moment. I'd like to review those today
16:21:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: dean, with VoiceOver largely complete (and because NVDA bot is currently not running), would you be able to run the test plan in NVDA?
16:21:49 <jugglinmike> dean: I just happened to sign up to do that work shortly before this call
16:22:01 <jugglinmike> dean: I do not have JAWS on my system, however
16:22:13 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Great!
16:22:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: As for the conflicts for VoiceOver
16:22:40 <jugglinmike> https://aria-at.w3.org/test-queue/557/conflicts
16:23:15 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: (For those unfamiliar: we have two people run the same test plan as a form of quality control. The ARIA-AT application alerts us when the two testers' results do not match.)
16:23:45 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: In test 1, the testers had the same output, but mmoss also reported "excess verbosity"
16:24:10 <jugglinmike> dean: I agree with that judgment, so I can include that in my results, as well
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16:25:05 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: In test 3, I'm questioning mmoss's results. When I review his results, I'm wondering if he pressed "ctrl+option+i" instead of "ctrl+option+l"
16:25:52 <jugglinmike> dean: He did! This is a problem I've found with sans-serif fonts in user interfaces. The value of single characters can be difficult to interpret in situations like this
16:26:19 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: And we intentionally use lower-case characters for this in order to avoid suggesting that the "shift" key should be involved
16:26:23 <jugglinmike> present+ dean
16:28:18 <jugglinmike> dean: This is rendered as a lower-case "L", but some readers may interpret that as an upper-case "I"
16:28:39 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This makes me wonder whether or not some other kind of solution is necessary...
16:29:10 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Do we want some explicit note for this? Perhaps something system-generated?
16:29:27 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't really know if we should spend too much time on this right now
16:29:47 <jugglinmike> dean: For the time being, I can communicate directly with mmoss about this, and mmoss can update his results
16:30:34 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That should address conflicts in test 3 and test 4, at least
16:30:34 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: As for test 5
16:30:51 <jugglinmike> dean: In test 5, I reported the same thing that the bot reported
16:30:52 <cyns> present+
16:31:10 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Your output does not include the value
16:32:00 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This test is with "quick nav" off. I wonder if that is the problem here. If you had "quick nav" on, I'm not sure where the reading cursor would have gone
16:32:51 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think the bot was sometimes also having trouble ensuring that "quick nav" was in the correct state. That's an outstanding bit of fragility in the VoiceOver Bot
16:33:07 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So I would suggest double-checking the state of "quick nav"
16:33:44 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Test 6 concerns "down arrow"
16:34:28 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The expected value is "2"
16:34:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Maybe mmoss is the one who had the "quick nav" problem here
16:35:04 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think we may want mmoss to repeat both test 5 and test 6, as well
16:36:47 <jugglinmike> dean: I'm using MacOS 15.7.3
16:36:52 <jugglinmike> dean: And Safari 26.2
16:37:09 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: VoiceOver is more likely the thing that's going to make the difference here
16:37:26 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Let's ask mmoss to re-run these tests and verify that he's using the correct settings
16:37:42 <jugglinmike> dean: I'll include this in the e-mail I send to mmoss
16:38:48 <jugglinmike> Topic: Blocking issues
16:39:10 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We have two issues at the moment; they're quite different from one another
16:39:24 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Issue 1363: Netlify preview not working for pull requests
16:39:31 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/1363
16:40:20 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I was trying to make some changes to test plans, and we have a Netlify-powered preview set up in the ARIA-AT repo which displays the built test plans. It's somewhat complicated.
16:40:37 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Right now, the Netlify preview is giving a "site not found" issue
16:43:12 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: howard-e took a look at this offline and reported, "It builds locally so my best bet would have been on  the Netlify preview timing out since the branch is stale. So it could  require a rebuild/new commit pushed but I did check a more recent PR  (though closed in Feb) and it also 404’ed which was unexpected."
16:43:32 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: howard-e goes on to say, "aria-at.netlify.app is still  available though. So also guessing something may have changed in the  Netlify config around PR Previews. It could also be the migration to W3C  that was discussed when I was more involved happened but something was  misconfigured (or maybe the simple rebuild/new commit pushed after the  ownership change, if it happened is still needed in that case for a  stale branch)
16:43:32 <jugglinmike> ."
16:43:38 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's helpful!
16:44:28 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Was the Netlify account was previously running under a Bocoup-owned org?
16:45:00 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: I can't recall for sure. I'll have to look into that offline
16:45:20 <jugglinmike> lola: Who in this group has access to the Netlify account?
16:50:01 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Daniel
16:51:03 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: The configuration within the aria-at project (both the file checked into the repository and the settings of the GitHub project itself) appear to be agnostic of ownership
16:51:13 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: ...so we may want to reach out to Daniel
16:51:20 <jugglinmike> lola: And perhaps Remy as well
16:52:04 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: ChrisC has the full context here, so is that a communication that ChrisC can send?
16:52:21 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: Sure. They're out-of-office today, but I can ask them tomorrow
16:52:30 <jugglinmike> subtopic: App issue 1665: NVDA/JAWS bot jobs get automatically cancelled
16:52:37 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at-app/issues/1665
16:52:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Elizabeth and mmoss had both expressed interest in learning about the bot infrastructure and code.
16:53:19 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: And if there's anyone else who would like to help maintain the bots, they are certainly welcome to
16:53:41 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I've been thinking of setting up a separate meeting where the folks at Bocoup can help walk newcomers onto the bot infrastructure
16:54:19 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We think that GitHub may have made a change that impacted the integration between the bots and the ARIA-AT app
16:54:59 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: I think that might be ChrisC and I together
16:58:45 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'll look into getting a "Bot Infrastructure Class" meeting set up and scheduled before the next meeting. Not necessarily to actually hold the meeting before then, but to at least have it on our calendars
16:58:58 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
16:58:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, lola, Joe_Humbert, dean, cyns
16:59:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:59:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/25-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim
16:59:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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