14:06:24 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict 14:06:28 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/03/19-wcag2ict-irc 14:06:28 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:06:29 Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 14:06:30 zakim, clear agenda 14:06:31 agenda cleared 14:06:36 chair: PhilDay 14:06:43 meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 14:06:50 rrsagent, make minutes 14:06:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 14:06:58 scribe+ LauraM 14:07:02 zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes 14:07:02 ok, PhilDay 14:07:09 agenda+ Announcements 14:07:09 agenda+ Editorial – non-web documents and non-web software 14:07:09 agenda+ 1.2.9 Audio-only (Live) (Level AAA) 14:07:09 agenda+ 1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced) (Level AAA) 14:07:10 agenda+ 1.4.7 Low or No Background Audio (Level AAA) 14:07:11 bba11y has joined #wcag2ict 14:07:19 regrets: Loïc Martínez Normand, 14:08:10 present+ 14:09:58 zakim, take up item 1 14:09:58 agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:10:32 Link to project board view: https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/13 14:10:32 Link to level AAA status table on wiki: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/Adding-Level-AAA-%E2%80%90-status-table 14:12:34 Link to latest editor’s draft: https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/ 14:12:56 PhilDay: Tamson Ewing (Spelling) reviewed the latest editors draft incorporating the changes from bba11y etc 14:13:01 zakim, next item 14:13:01 agendum 2 -- Editorial – non-web documents and non-web software -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:13:31 PhilDay: Pick any issues to self-assign 14:14:02 scribe+ PhilDay 14:14:30 PhilDay: Editorial, non-web documents and non-web software needs to be made. LauraM made the changes to the main doc. Needs to search the remaining docs. 14:14:38 LauraM: Have made changes in the main doc. Will now move on to other docs 14:14:43 zakim, next item 14:14:43 agendum 3 -- 1.2.9 Audio-only (Live) (Level AAA) -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:14:55 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/535 14:14:55 Link to PR: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/835 14:15:15 Text from PR 835: 14:15:15 Applying SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live) to Non-Web Documents 14:15:15 This success criterion is problematic to apply directly to non-web documents because there is no support to include live audio in non-web document technology that exist today. 14:15:15 Where a non-web document technology supports incorporation of live audio-only content, this applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 1.2.9. 14:15:17 NOTE 14:15:17 This SC would not apply to "non-web documents" because any non-web technology that was streaming or presenting live audio content would be considered software". 14:15:17 Applying SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live) to Non-Web Software 14:15:18 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 1.2.9. 14:15:18 NOTE 14:15:18 Some ways to satisfy this success criterion would be to provide live captions (also known as subtitles or “subtitles for the hearing impaired") or a text transcript, script, or other text-based alternative. 14:15:19 NOTE 14:15:19 When captions are provided, to satisfy this success criterion, they would have to provide a "synchronized text alternative for both speech and non-speech audio information needed to understand the media content” where non-speech information includes “sound effects, music, laughter, speaker identification and location”. 14:15:19 NOTE 14:15:20 See also the Comments on Closed Functionality. 14:15:20 Content for SC problematic for closed: 14:15:20 1.2.9 Audio-only (Live) (Level AAA) — One of the options available to authors for Success Criterion 1.2.9 is providing a media alternative that is text which, in the absence of connected assistive technology, would need to be made available in different modalities. 14:16:51 ack bba11y 14:16:54 PhilDay: We were almost at consensus before so just running through for final approval 14:17:19 bba11y: so we are saying that "this success criteria would not apply"? Are we ok with that? 14:17:51 ACTION PhilDay to edit PR 835 for consistency of language (may be problematic to apply instead of does not apply) 14:17:52 PhilDay: for consistency sake will change to "This success criteria may be problematic" 14:19:53 GreggVan: Not sure I agree. If I ship an audio file without captions, why is that not a problem? 14:20:12 GreggVan: Because it is "Live" audio. Ok. 14:20:39 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above 14:20:44 +1 14:21:20 +1 14:21:38 GreggVan: Disagree. A document includes media (so a movie is a document). So if I am offering the media from my site to you, you will run it on a player but you can't show the captions if they are not included in my live stream 14:23:10 GreggVan: We have three products, streaming software, program (document) and player (software/hardware). 14:28:24 GreggVan: My podcasts are not software, they are media which are documents 14:29:10 Problematic note:
14:29:10 This SC would not apply to "non-web documents" because any non-web technology that was streaming or presenting live audio content would be considered software".
14:29:15 Suggest we take this line out 14:29:19 GreggVan: So line 76 should be removed. 14:29:55 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above, including removing NOTE 1 on non-web documents (lines 74 to 76). 14:31:08 GreggVan: Line 71 is not correct either. 14:32:07 Delete 71, 74-76. 14:32:20 PhilDay: Keep 73 14:32:40 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above, including removing notes 1 & 3 on non-web documents (lines 71, 74 to 76, keep 73). 14:33:21 bba11y: XM radio disappointingly doesn't do this 14:34:51 Add note: live audio players (such as radios) may not currently support displaying captions and it may pose a risk in vehicles so may not be suitable in all cases. 14:35:14 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above, including removing notes 1 & 3 on non-web documents (lines 71, 74 to 76, keep 73), and adding new note 14:35:18 +1 14:35:26 +1 14:36:10 +1 14:36:18 RESOLUTION: For SC 1.2.9 Audio-Only (Live), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above, including removing notes 1 & 3 on non-web documents (lines 71, 74 to 76, keep 73), and adding new note 14:36:28 zakim, next item 14:36:28 agendum 4 -- 1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced) (Level AAA) -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:36:46 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/539 14:36:46 Link to PRs: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/850 for comments on AAA, and https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/851 for SC problematic for closed 14:37:29 PhilDay: Single proposal for today 14:37:33 Text from PR 850: 14:37:33 Applying SC 1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced) to Non-Web Documents and Software 14:37:33 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 1.4.6. 14:37:33 NOTE (FOR NON-WEB SOFTWARE) 14:37:35 See also the Comments on Closed Functionality. 14:37:35 Text from PR 851: 14:37:35 1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced) - There are cases where applying this success criterion to non-web software on ICT with closed functionality is problematic: 14:37:36 When the contrast of the content is determined by the hardware and not modifiable by the software author, it may not be possible to meet this success criterion. 14:37:36 NOTE 1 14:37:36 Contrast requirements for hardware are out of scope for WCAG2ICT (and this success criterion). 14:37:37 When the color contrast ratio cannot be programmatically measured due to system limitations (e.g. lockdown), precise quantifiable testing of color contrast cannot be performed by a third party. In such cases, the software author would need to confirm that the color combinations used meet the contrast requirement. 14:37:37 NOTE 2 14:37:37 Photographs (e.g., of a hardware display) are not sufficient for testing that content meets this success criterion. This is because the quality of the lighting, camera, and physical aspects of the hardware display can dramatically affect the ability to capture the content for testing purposes. 14:39:16 Draft content was derived from content for 1.4.3 Contrast (Minimum) 14:43:16 Note from Gregg: Contrast for emissive rather than for rellective systems 14:43:29 s/rellective/reflective 14:44:12 ACTION PhilDay to draft content then ask Gregg to review 14:45:05 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above, and additional note on emissive / reflective 14:46:51 ADA standards and 508 for contrast on hardware just requires “light on dark on light”. 14:46:59 +1 14:47:12 +1 14:47:22 NOTE: C+1ontrast for emissive 14:47:33 +1 14:47:45 RESOLUTION: For 1.4.6 Contrast (Enhanced), incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, with edits shown in the meeting minutes above, and additional note on emissive / reflective 14:48:04 emissive or reflective ICT - not content 14:48:11 GreggVan: the content doesn't emit, it's the hardware. 14:48:45 zakim, next item 14:48:46 agendum 5 -- 1.4.7 Low or No Background Audio (Level AAA) -- taken up [from PhilDay] 14:48:51 Link to issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/540 14:49:15 Text from issue 540: 14:49:16 Applying SC 1.4.7 Low or No Background Audio to Non-Web Documents and Software 14:49:16 This applies directly as written, and as described in Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 1.4.7. 14:49:43 +1 14:49:54 +1 14:50:06 DRAFT RESOLUTION: For 1.4.7 Low or No Background Audio, incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, as-is 14:50:22 +1 14:50:23 +1 14:50:25 +1 14:50:32 RESOLUTION: For 1.4.7 Low or No Background Audio, incorporate Proposal into the editor’s draft, as-is 14:50:32 q+ to suggest not being dependent on close review from AGWG, base on my experience with WCAG2issues 14:51:42 TOPIC: Issue 852, non-web document definition 14:51:44 https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/852 14:52:20 Just an FYI: https://www.access-board.gov/aba/guides/chapter-7-signs/#why-isnt-a-minimum-level-of-color-contrast-between-characters-and-the-background-specified-in-the-standards 14:52:22 Why isn’t a minimum level of color contrast between characters and the background specified in the Standards? 14:52:40 From USAB guide to chapter 7 on signage. 14:53:03 Color contrast is based on a color’s light reflectance value (LFV), which measures the amount of a light a color reflects or absorbs. It is typically measured using a spectrophotometer. Measuring LFV accurately in the field can be difficult and is impacted by a variety of factors, including sign materials and lighting conditions. 14:54:10 If you distribute using the web, then WCAG applies. If you distribute without using the web, then WCAG2ICT applies 14:55:28 bba11y: where are we putting that guidance? Will it just be a reply or can we use as FAQ or other content. 14:55:43 ack me 14:55:43 bba11y, you wanted to suggest not being dependent on close review from AGWG, base on my experience with WCAG2issues 14:55:59 ACTION PhilDay to add initial comment in issue 14:56:42 Then we will pick up next week if Mitch has more response 14:57:29 rrsagent, make minutes 14:57:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 14:57:40 present + 14:57:45 present+ 14:57:46 present+ 14:57:46 present+ 14:57:51 rrsagent, make minutes 14:57:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 14:58:32 zakim, end meeting 14:58:32 As of this point the attendees have been bba11y, GreggVan, LauraM 14:58:33 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 14:58:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim 14:58:40 I am happy to have been of service, PhilDay; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 14:58:40 rrsagent, bye 14:58:40 I see no action items 14:58:42 Zakim has left #wcag2ict