14:47:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:48:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/03/06-forms-irc
14:48:12 <Steven> rrsagent, make logs public
14:49:44 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2026Mar/0002
14:49:53 <Steven> Meeting: XForms Group Weekly Teleconference
14:49:53 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:49:53 <Steven> Previous Meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/01/16-forms-minutes
14:50:07 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:50:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/06-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:57:37 <Alain> Alain has joined #forms
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15:00:17 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
15:00:39 <Steven> Topic: Inserting nodes
15:00:39 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2026Feb/0008
15:00:55 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2026Feb/att-0008/insert-table.html
15:04:51 <Steven> Steven: [explains the email]
15:05:12 <Steven> Steven: Erik you were proposing document to document replacing being allowed
15:05:25 <Steven> Erik: I haven't thought deeply about it though.
15:06:21 <Steven> Erik: An XML document is a tree with attributes and special case of document node, and you insert into others or next to others.
15:06:36 <Steven> ... in general siblings but not always.
15:08:17 <Steven> Steven: It seems to be about "what does the user intend?"
15:08:31 <Steven> Erik: A replace action should be possible.
15:09:01 <Steven> ... replacing is done by delete and then insert.
15:10:53 <Steven> Steven: I think we should be allowed to insert an attribute into an element, otherwise it is difficult to do
15:11:26 <Steven> ... especially since we now say that it is disallowed, you have to select the attribute list of a node
15:11:39 <ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#data-mutations
15:11:55 <Steven> Erik: Patterns for data mutations
15:13:34 <Steven> Steven: Why use context for setting attributes?
15:13:53 <Steven> Erik: @context means "into". Ref creates siblings.
15:15:45 <Steven> Steven: attributes are in a separate list from the children
15:17:23 <Steven> Alain: I was looking at XQuery, and they have replace, replace value, and rename
15:18:55 <Steven> Steven: Can I insert text into a document node?
15:19:01 <Steven> Alain: Only whitespace
15:19:33 <Steven> Steven: Is it useful then?
15:19:58 <Steven> Erik: If you want to create any XML document, then yes.
15:20:49 <Steven> Steven: So allow text and check that it is whitespace?
15:20:52 <Steven> Alain: Yes
15:22:14 <Steven> Steven: ANd inserting text as a sibling of the root element has also to be checked as whitespace
15:22:22 <Steven> Alain: Yes
15:22:26 <Steven> s/ANd/And/
15:23:49 <Steven> Alain: For DOM there used to be a text node for attributes, but not with DOM3
15:26:08 <Steven> Steven: To insert an attribute, must you always use context?
15:28:39 <Steven> .. I would expect <insert ref="elem" origin="../blank/@attr"/>  to work, and not sure what blocks it
15:29:02 <Steven> s/../.../
15:29:19 <Steven> Erik: I would like a single way of doing it
15:30:04 <Steven> ... maybe having multiple verbs and actions in XQuery is the better approach
15:30:24 <ebruchez> https://www.xmlmind.com/tutorials/XQueryUpdate/index.html
15:32:32 <Steven> Steven: My example above seems very obvious
15:32:37 <Steven> ... in intent
15:33:47 <Steven> Steven: How about if we add to @position, an "into"
15:34:54 <Steven> Steven: I will work on this further, and come with some proposals.
15:35:50 <Steven> Steven: If you say <insert context="parent" ref="element" origin="somelist"/>
15:36:21 <Steven> s/somelist/somelist\/element/
15:40:13 <Steven> ... does it matter that the list, empty at first, becomes non-empty for subsequent nodes in the list.
15:40:21 <Steven> s/./?/
15:40:34 <Steven> Erik: I think ref is evaluated once
15:40:37 <Steven> Alain: Agree
15:41:07 <Steven> Steven: That's good
15:42:18 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:42:38 <Steven> Steven: The ixml symposium was good. Videos will be posted.
15:42:51 <Steven> ... next meeting next week, an hour earlier in Europe.
15:42:57 <Steven> \[ADJOURN]
15:43:01 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/03/06-forms-minutes.html Steven
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