14:57:24 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict 14:57:28 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-irc 14:57:28 RRSAgent, make logs Public 14:57:29 Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 14:57:32 zakim, clear agenda 14:57:32 agenda cleared 14:57:43 meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 14:57:53 Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes 14:57:53 ok, PhilDay 14:58:13 reagent, make minutes 14:58:22 rrsagent, make minutes 14:58:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 14:58:45 scribe+ PhilDay 14:59:11 maryjom has joined #wcag2ict 14:59:27 zakim, clear agenda 14:59:27 agenda cleared 14:59:34 chair: Mary Jo Mueller 14:59:37 LauraM has joined #WCAG2ICT 14:59:44 rrsagent, make minutes 14:59:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom 14:59:52 Zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes 14:59:52 ok, maryjom 14:59:58 agenda+ Announcements 15:00:05 agenda+ 12 Feb survey Survey Results for Level AAA SCs 15:00:11 regrets: Gregg Vanderheiden, Sam Ogami 15:00:38 present+ 15:00:43 scribe+ LauraM 15:00:52 PhilDay has joined #wcag2ict 15:01:20 present+ 15:01:26 scribe+ PhilDay 15:01:29 agenda? 15:01:50 zakim, next item 15:01:50 agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom] 15:02:02 bbailey has joined #wcag2ict 15:02:05 present+ 15:02:07 present+ 15:02:43 Maryjom: Reminder from last week, Maryjom - this is my last day in this task force. 15:03:01 bbailey: Tuesday call, one provision per person per week. 15:03:18 Maryjom: This will be a good time to contribute to the WCAG 3 Criteria 15:04:13 Maryjom: I'll be in contact with Philday until the open items are done. 15:04:17 q+ to ask for a co-chair, editor, or any other help 15:04:22 ack PhilDay 15:04:22 PhilDay, you wanted to ask for a co-chair, editor, or any other help 15:04:48 PhilDay: If there is anyone that has time at all, if anyone has time to take on editing duties or be co chair, drop me a message. 15:05:08 Maryjom: Email from someone at Intuit who is interested in joining the task force 15:06:20 zakim, next item 15:06:20 agendum 2 -- 12 Feb survey Survey Results for Level AAA SCs -- taken up [from maryjom] 15:06:26 Link to Survey: https://www.w3.org/wbs/55145/AAA-take-two/results/ 15:06:34 TOPIC: Question 1: Introductory information for AAA in the SC Problematic for Closed Functionality 15:06:46 Link to question 1: https://www.w3.org/wbs/55145/AAA-take-two/results/#xq1 15:07:15 Link to SC problematic for closed section from PR 828: https://w3c.github.io/wcag2ict/#level-aaa-criteria 15:07:36 Maryjom: First paragraph under level AAA 15:09:30 q+ 15:11:21 Maryjom: reviewing survey responses, Gregg had some minor language changes, PhilDay said "ok as is", Loic plussed the changes from Gregg. Daniel had some substantive changes 15:11:24 ack bbailey 15:11:25 ack bbailey 15:11:43 bbailey: The assignment was to put the AAA statement from WCAG into WCAG2ICT. 15:11:46 Current text from editor's draft: 15:11:46 Level AAA success criteria are not considered mandatory, and per WCAG 2, "It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where there may not be 15:11:46 available assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents, such as browsers) to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria are considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:13:04 q+ 15:13:36 Gregg's change 15:13:36 Level AAA success criteria are not considered mandatory, and per WCAG 2, "It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology 15:13:36 and/or platform support (including user agents, such as browsers) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria are considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:15:02 It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be 15:15:02 available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:15:56 WCAG 2 states that "It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user 15:15:56 agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:16:16 q+ to ask about "states" 15:16:27 Daniel's further change (as per Mary Jo's edits above): 15:16:27 WCAG2 states: "It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) 15:16:27 may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:16:37 q+ 15:16:53 ack LauraM 15:17:23 LauraM: Can we switch from the negative to the positive (instead of not recommended, ... level AAA should be considered where possible) 15:17:40 Daniel: +1 to LauraM's proposal of positive framing 15:18:05 ack bbailey 15:18:05 bbailey, you wanted to ask about "states" 15:18:16 q? 15:18:18 maryjom: That is a direct quote from WCAG2, but we could paraphrase and make it positive if we rewrite it in our own words 15:18:22 ack Daniel 15:18:29 bbailey: Didn't like states, so rewriting it helps this as well 15:18:35 daniel: we can keep the reference to WCAG. 15:18:39 Daniel: Just link to the reference, but OK to change the word 15:18:44 s/word/words 15:19:30 ack me 15:20:59 maryjom: Retrieving WCAG 2 link to the content about AAA not being required. 15:21:40 https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#conformance-reqs 15:21:57 Pulling from Note 2 here. 15:22:05 CR 1 note two: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1 15:22:43 Possible wording: WCAG2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#conformance-reqs], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should be considered where possible for applicable content. 15:23:16 Updated wording with correct link: 15:23:16 WCAG2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should be considered where possible for applicable content. 15:23:23 +1 PhilDay above 15:23:39 +1 15:24:05 q+ 15:24:14 ack daniel 15:24:14 ack Daniel 15:24:53 Daniel: WCAG says that AAA not be required so we should acknowledge. And add the language from PhilDay above as well 15:25:14 Both statements: 15:25:14 WCAG2 (Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should be considered where possible for applicable content. However, it also states that "It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy all Level AAA 15:25:14 success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with 15:25:14 closed functionality: 15:25:57 q? 15:26:09 WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should not be required, However, Level AAA should be considered where possible for applicable content. 15:26:18 Daniel: The note should be attached to the phrase and the link. 15:26:43 LauraM: Q+ to say agree with Daniel 15:27:13 Longer version: WCAG2 encourages that Level AAA conformance should be considered where possible for applicable content. However, WCAG2 (Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 states that "It is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required as a general policy for entire sites because it is not possible to satisfy 15:27:13 all Level AAA success criteria for some content." This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply 15:27:13 to ICT with closed functionality: 15:27:20 q+ 15:27:24 ack Daniel 15:28:02 Daniel: The obvious reason it should be considered is that AAA SC contain provisions that meet user needs that are not otherwise met. 15:28:27 WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should not be required, However, Level AAA should be considered, where possible, for applicable content because these success criteria cover user needs that are not met with Level A and AA success criteria. 15:29:07 q+ 15:29:33 s/However/however 15:29:35 s/not be required,/not be required./ 15:29:40 s/required, However/required. However/ 15:29:44 ack PhilDay 15:29:51 ack PhilDay 15:30:03 Do we want to keep the last two sentences on closed functionality? 15:30:18 +1 15:30:19 Maryjom: Yes, just still working above that. 15:30:39 +1 to first two sentences 15:30:49 Revised version (with latest edits to start): WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should not be required, However, Level AAA should be considered, where possible, for applicable content because these success criteria cover user needs that are not met with Level A and AA 15:30:49 success criteria. This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed 15:30:49 functionality: 15:31:14 WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should not be required. However, Level AAA should be considered, where possible, for applicable content because these success criteria cover user needs that are not met in full with Level A and AA success criteria. 15:31:40 This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:32:52 POLL: Is the edited introductory text for the Level AAA section of the SC Problematic for Closed Functionality ready to incorporate into the editor's draft? 15:32:55 +1 15:33:02 +1 15:33:14 Edited text in single paragraph for ease of reference: 15:33:14 WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should not be required. However, Level AAA should be considered, where possible, for applicable content because these success criteria cover user needs that are not met in full with Level A and AA success criteria. This is especially 15:33:14 true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:33:19 +1 15:33:20 +1 15:34:12 q+ 15:34:54 ack Philday 15:35:25 Daniel: If we put the positive first and then the negative, it might flow better 15:35:41 Latest tweak: Level AAA should be considered, where possible, for applicable content because these success criteria cover user needs that are not met in full with Level A and AA success criteria. 15:35:41 However, WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that Level AAA conformance should not be required. This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these criteria. The 15:35:41 applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:37:16 Minor edit to get Daniel's change: 15:37:16 Level AAA should be considered, where possible, for applicable content because these success criteria cover user needs that are not met in full with Level A and AA success criteria. 15:37:16 However, WCAG 2 (5.2.1 Conformance Level)[https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/#cc1], NOTE 2 indicates that it is not recommended that Level AAA conformance be required. This is especially true for ICT with closed functionality, where assistive technology and/or platform support (including user agents<#user-agents>) may not be available to satisfy these 15:37:16 criteria. The applicability of the following WCAG 2 Level AAA success criteria is considered problematic to apply to ICT with closed functionality: 15:37:51 DRAFT RESOLUTION: Incorporate the edited introductory text for the Level AAA section of the SC Problematic for Closed Functionality into the editor's draft, as shown above. 15:37:58 +1 15:38:02 +1 15:38:13 +! 15:38:15 +1 15:38:31 q+ 15:38:50 ack Daniel 15:39:00 +1 15:39:02 q- 15:39:03 RESOLUTION: Incorporate the edited introductory text for the Level AAA section of the SC Problematic for Closed Functionality into the editor's draft, as shown above. 15:39:15 not be required **as a general policy** 15:39:22 TOPIC: Question 2: Adding Level AAA into the introduction section of WCAG2ICT Group Note 15:39:50 Link to question 2: https://www.w3.org/wbs/55145/AAA-take-two/results/#xq2 15:40:00 Link to PR 832: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/832 15:40:11 Link to Daniel's comment: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/832/#issuecomment-3890606706 15:40:56 `/me just put link to the preview on the PR 15:41:25 Link to preview of PR: https://deploy-preview-832--wcag2ict.netlify.app/ 15:41:57 q+ 15:42:17 ack bbailey 15:43:02 q+ 15:43:06 Daniel's comment/question is about this new statement: It is not recommended that WCAG 2 conformance be required as a general policy for non-web documents and software because it is not possible to satisfy all success criteria for some non-web ICT. 15:43:11 bbailey: We like WCAG2ICT and WCAG2 conformance given the input from WCAG2ICT but as a general policy, we want people using WCAG2 out of the box for non web docs and software. 15:43:14 ack Daniel 15:43:53 Daniel: on the other hand, we could say that we recommend people use the guidance and make it positive. 15:44:02 Daniel: This is more editorial than substantive. 15:45:26 q+ 15:45:33 ack Daniel 15:46:46 Attempt at a more positive framing: 15:46:46 WCAG2ICT can be useful as guidance for policy for non-web documents and software 15:46:46 However, because it is not possible to satisfy all success criteria for some non-web ICT, and therefore it is not recommended that WCAG 2 conformance be required without changes as a general policy for non-web documents and software. 15:46:51 q+ 15:47:08 ack PhilDay 15:47:30 LauraM9 has joined #WCAG2ICT 15:47:43 Scribe+ LauraM9 15:48:25 Bbailey: It is not possible to satisfy all AAA SC for all conditions 15:49:11 Maryjom: Bbailey has a task which is to edit this content 15:49:31 q+ 15:49:37 Maryjom: Bbailey can do a PR against my pr. 15:49:41 ack Daniel 15:49:53 Daniel: I recommend using the suggestion feature. 15:50:29 Daniel: Suggest we don't nest PRs. Instead use the Suggestion feature (click + on the line, then click on suggestion button which looks a bit like a document, then create suggested text). 15:50:48 ... Above is within a PR in github 15:52:00 TOPIC: Question 3: Section Titles revisited 15:52:11 Link to question 3: https://www.w3.org/wbs/55145/AAA-take-two/results/#xq3 15:52:20 Link to PR 833: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/833/ 15:52:56 Preview of document: https://deploy-preview-833--wcag2ict.netlify.app/ 15:54:29 Note: Comments on level A and AA title needs editing - there is a typo (currently states AAA) 15:55:30 DRAFT RESOLUTION: Incorporate PR 833 to adjust the section titles as proposed 15:55:49 +1 15:55:51 +1 15:55:54 +1 15:56:05 +1 15:56:06 RESOLUTION: Incorporate PR 833 to adjust the section titles as proposed 15:57:52 q+ 15:57:54 [Mary Jo looking at next few questions] 15:58:16 ack daniel 15:58:29 ack Daniel 15:58:39 Daniel: what we are discussing is if to merge the Part 2 of 2 1.3.6 into the editors draft. 15:59:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:59:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Daniel 15:59:15 We will pick up questions 4 onwards next week, and also question 2 with Bruce's edits 15:59:40 Daniel: It is possible to submit answers even if the survey is closed - you just get a warning. 15:59:42 q+ 16:00:22 ack bbailey 16:00:27 maryjom: Will change the end date on the survey so you can give more input 16:00:36 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:00:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 16:03:31 o rrsagent, make minutes 16:03:37 rrsagent, make minutes 16:03:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html PhilDay 16:04:31 rrsageent, draft minutes 16:05:34 zakim, end meetingb 16:05:34 I don't understand 'end meetingb', PhilDay 16:05:36 zakim, end meeting 16:05:38 As of this point the attendees have been LauraM, PhilDay, Daniel, bbailey, ! 16:05:38 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 16:05:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim 16:05:46 I am happy to have been of service, PhilDay; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:05:47 Zakim has left #wcag2ict 16:05:56 rrsagent, bye 16:05:56 I see no action items