17:56:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:56:42 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-aria-irc
17:56:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:56:43 <Zakim> Meeting: ARIA WG
17:56:46 <spectranaut_> chair: ValerieYoung
17:56:58 <spectranaut_> agendabot, find agenda
17:56:58 <agendabot> spectranaut_, OK. This may take a minute...
17:56:59 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/690d057f-db6d-4169-b13f-68d7f1336b59/20260212T130000/
17:56:59 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:56:59 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created:%3E=2026-02-05+repo:w3c/aria&type=Issues
17:56:59 <agendabot> agenda+ -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y
17:57:02 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
17:57:05 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Add transparent generic definition and update accessibility parent and child defs https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2599
17:57:08 <agendabot> agenda+ -> aria-actions: handling focus when actions are synthetically triggered https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2691
17:59:47 <Francis_Storr> Francis_Storr has joined #aria
18:00:37 <Siri> Siri has joined #aria
18:01:55 <pkra> pkra has joined #aria
18:02:00 <pkra> present+
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18:02:19 <Francis_Storr> present+
18:02:26 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri has joined #aria
18:02:32 <giacomo-petri> present+
18:03:00 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
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18:04:46 <Adam_Page> present+
18:04:46 <cyns> scribe:cyns
18:04:58 <dgrogan> dgrogan has joined #aria
18:05:07 <cyns> scribe: cyns
18:05:11 <sarah> sarah has joined #aria
18:05:15 <sarah> present+
18:05:18 <cyns> zakim, next itme
18:05:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next itme', cyns
18:05:21 <cyns> zakim, next item
18:05:21 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New PR Triage https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+created:%3E=2026-02-05+repo:w3c/aria&type=Issues -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:05:21 <github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
18:05:26 <dgrogan> present+
18:05:53 <Siri> Present+
18:06:05 <Daniel> present+
18:07:57 <cyns> spectranaut_: PR #2726 was reviewed last week.
18:06:05 <cyns> Scott: this PR doesn't address his original issue. What is the use case here? Is it editable comboboxes
18:08:22 <sarah> q+
18:08:36 <cyns> ...aria-placeholder doesn't actually add a rendered placeholder
18:08:44 <spectranaut_> ack sarah
18:09:15 <cyns> Sarah: when this is done with select-only, the placeholder is in the content. Should authors add the placeholder?
18:09:36 <cyns> zakim, next item
18:09:36 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> WPT Open PRs https://bit.ly/wpt_a11y -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:09:36 <github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
18:10:16 <cyns> no open WPT PRs, James Craig is not here, skip
18:10:25 <cyns> zakim, close this item
18:10:25 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
18:10:26 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:10:26 <Zakim> 3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot]
18:10:33 <cyns> zakim, next item
18:10:33 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:10:33 <github-bot> I can't comment on that because it doesn't look like a github issue to me.
18:10:55 <cyns> spectranaut_: no deep dives on list, no one asks for one
18:11:02 <cyns> zakim, close this item
18:11:02 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
18:11:03 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:11:03 <Zakim> 4. -> Add transparent generic definition and update accessibility parent and child defs https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2599 [from agendabot]
18:11:07 <cyns> zakim, next item
18:11:07 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> Add transparent generic definition and update accessibility parent and child defs https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2599 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:12:32 <cyns> spectranaut_: this is just trying to make the spec more clear, no change to browsers
18:12:48 <cyns> sarah: change to spec to align with what browsers already do
18:13:21 <cyns> spectranaut_: what browser input is needed?
18:14:14 <cyns> @sarah: jcraig and (I think someone from Chrome) didn't want a must for removing things from the a11y tree, and this should only define parent-child relationships. Moving to 7.1 would do that, so need input from browsers
18:14:58 <benbeaudry> benbeaudry has joined #aria
18:15:02 <benbeaudry> present+
18:15:17 <benbeaudry> q+
18:15:49 <cyns> pk: seems like spec and user agent sides are at odds. I find the definition and the whole section confusing. we could acknowledge that UA might leave nodes in, but the spec should be more clear to explain what parent-child relationships should be. Can we do that without forcing UA to do something they don't want to?
18:16:41 <spectranaut_> q+
18:16:42 <cyns> pk: almost seems contradictory, one section says to remove intermediate nodes, but this section assumes they're still there
18:17:06 <cyns> sarah: may well be confusing!
18:17:18 <cyns> pk: definition of accessibility object doesn't align with other definitions
18:17:19 <spectranaut_> ack benbeaudry
18:17:47 <cyns> benbeaudry: sarah can you remember who from Chromium objected? pls tag me so I can review more deeply
18:18:08 <cyns> sarah: I remember james craig, I think someone from Chrome too
18:18:17 <cyns> pk: gecko includes them
18:19:07 <cyns> sarah: some browsers have the nodes, but they don't interfere with the tree. I remember from testing that browsers all handle it fine, but there can still be interviening generics
18:19:08 <spectranaut_> q?
18:19:17 <cyns> pk: want to meet up to hammer this out?
18:19:20 <cyns> sarah: yes
18:21:00 <cyns> spectranaut_: I think what peter is saying that it should be clear for developers reading it, because browser behavior is not going to change. It makes sense to me because I worked on child nodes before, but good argument that it's confusing. maybe something like generics shouldn't be included in a11y tree, but browsers can leave them
18:21:21 <cyns> pk: spec should be talking about aria layer, not OS a11y tree
18:21:58 <cyns> spectranaut_: developers will see the computed roles in browser dev tools, need to let them know to expect that. Does Ben need to review this?
18:22:38 <cyns> sarah: I wanted to check my understanding that we don't want a browsers must, would still like that input, but don't need full review
18:23:06 <Daniel> q+
18:23:14 <spectranaut_> ack spectranaut_
18:23:16 <spectranaut_> ack Daniel
18:23:47 <cyns> daniel: we should clarify what counts as editorial. Does this modify a user agents must?
18:24:12 <cyns> sarah: Peter's comment suggested a new browsers must, but it's not currently in the PR
18:24:24 <cyns> zakim, next item
18:24:24 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> aria-actions: handling focus when actions are synthetically triggered https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2691 -- taken up [from agendabot]
18:24:55 <cyns> spectranaut_: anything to review here?
18:24:59 <cyns> sarah: no
18:25:11 <cyns> zakim, close this item
18:25:11 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
18:25:12 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
18:25:24 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
18:25:45 <cyns> spectranaut_: let's look at aria normative PR tracking board. Anything to call out?
18:25:52 <Matt_King> present+
18:25:55 <spectranaut_> board: https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/204
18:26:00 <spectranaut_> q?
18:26:36 <cyns> keithamus: has interop 26 been announced?
18:26:45 <cyns> ??: yes, announced today
18:26:47 <spectranaut_> Topic: Review PRs
18:27:30 <cyns> keithamus: look at interop proposal 2717
18:28:07 <keithamus> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/2717
18:28:29 <cyns> spectranaut_: this needs reviews by srah, adrian, scott and cookiecrook
18:28:54 <cyns> keithamus: needs more attention from gecko
18:29:40 <cyns> keithamus: one browser copied another, assumed that's correct, need input from accessibility experts from everywhere
18:29:55 <cyns> scott: this matches what I assumed after talking to Aaron and Mason from Chrome
18:30:25 <keithamus> s/needs more attention from gecko/needs more attention from WebKit
18:31:46 <cyns> mattking: are there test cases or sample code that can be contributed to APG? Demo examples that can be used to test with AT
18:31:53 <cyns> keithamus: yes, will look for some
18:32:06 <keithamus> https://una.im/popover-hint/ & https://mdn.github.io/dom-examples/popover-api/popover-hint/ have examples.
18:32:13 <cyns> spectranaut_: does this belong in APG since it's HTML?
18:32:26 <keithamus> https://mdn.github.io/dom-examples/popover-api/
18:32:34 <cyns> mattking: yes, we want to include HTML, especially open UI, has been on roadmap
18:33:07 <cyns> mattking: can someone help explore this, so we can make sure we have tests
18:33:44 <cyns> keithamus: popover=hint is mostly for tooltips, including rich tooltips
18:34:21 <cyns> mattking: tooltip development examples is one of the oldest APG issues, no one has come up with a good one. maybe popover=hint will be it?
18:34:54 <cyns> keithamus: there is also the interest for API, which may or may not ship, covers these interaction patterns
18:35:34 <cyns> cyns: connect to old APG tooltip issue?
18:35:44 <cyns> mattking: if we think that's right
18:35:58 <cyns> keithamus: there are more coming
18:36:12 <cyns> mattking: maybe this belongs in the tooltip example issue?
18:36:44 <cyns> spectranaut_: assigning issue to keith to add popover examples
18:37:00 <cyns> spectranaut_: sarah, still want to be a reviewer?
18:37:03 <cyns> sarah: yes
18:37:51 <giacomo-petri> q+
18:38:11 <cyns> zakim, end meeting
18:38:11 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pkra, Francis_Storr, giacomo-petri, Adam_Page, sarah, dgrogan, Siri, Daniel, benbeaudry, Matt_King
18:38:13 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:38:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/12-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:38:21 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, cyns; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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