15:32:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #vcwg
15:32:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/02/11-vcwg-irc
15:32:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:32:33 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
15:32:44 <ivan> Meeting: Verifiable Credentials Working Group Telco
15:32:44 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2026Feb/0002.html
15:32:44 <ivan> chair: brentz
15:32:44 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2026-02-11: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2026Feb/0002.html
15:32:46 <ivan> regrets: PhilA
15:57:12 <brent> brent has joined #vcwg
16:01:41 <ivan> present+
16:01:49 <ivan> present+ brent
16:02:01 <ivan> present+ dmitri
16:02:06 <ivan> present+ kevin
16:02:12 <manu> present+
16:03:06 <ivan> present+ pohhendrydex
16:03:11 <ivan> present+ dlongley
16:03:29 <KevinDean> KevinDean has joined #vcwg
16:03:37 <dmitriz> dmitriz has joined #vcwg
16:03:40 <KevinDean> present+
16:03:45 <ivan> present+ isaac
16:03:46 <dmitriz> present+
16:04:00 <ivan> present+ tallted
16:04:01 <PDL_ASU> PDL_ASU has joined #vcwg
16:04:06 <PDL_ASU> Scribe+
16:04:08 <ivan> present+ PDL_ASU
16:04:09 <TallTed> present+
16:04:22 <PDL_ASU> present+
16:04:24 <HendryPoh> HendryPoh has joined #vcwg
16:04:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/11-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
16:04:50 <PDL_ASU>  Brent - bulk of meeting on VCDM issues.
16:05:14 <manu> q+ to suggest plan to auto-transcription goal.
16:05:18 <ivan> s/- bulk/: bulk/
16:05:23 <brent> ack manu
16:05:23 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to suggest plan to auto-transcription goal.
16:05:24 <PDL_ASU> Brent: Agenda updates?
16:05:25 <isaac3> isaac3 has joined #vcwg
16:05:46 <ivan> present+ bigbluehat
16:05:58 <PDL_ASU> Manu: plan for an transciption tool for meetings (perhaps)?
16:06:05 <PDL_ASU> Brent: intros?
16:06:29 <PDL_ASU> Manu: transcription tool ---
16:06:50 <TallTed> present- dmitri
16:07:23 <PDL_ASU> Manu: current shortcomings of transcription system - hard to say off record comments; URLs not shared in minutes; proposals and resolutions don't get saved hence not shared
16:08:07 <PDL_ASU> Many: subtopic: any URL or is detected as a 'special thing', will be pulled into the minutes automatically.
16:08:45 <TallTed> s/Many: subtopic/Manu: subtopic/
16:08:50 <PDL_ASU> Manu: saying things off the record - only easy way to do that is going into a breakout room, but high friction.  Or say things without colon in the chat channel.
16:09:24 <ivan> present+ jennie
16:09:25 <PDL_ASU> Manu: put "off the record" in the chat window" but AI likely get it wrong at times. Shouldn't depend on the AI accuracy
16:09:30 <JennieM> JennieM has joined #vcwg
16:09:35 <PDL_ASU>  Manu: concerns?
16:09:36 <brent> q?
16:09:51 <JennieM> present+
16:10:16 <ivan> present+ elaine
16:10:36 <ivan> q+
16:10:45 <PDL_ASU> Brent: discussed topic last week during advisory bd f2f meeting. Part of session on open source software dev in W3C.  Came up with simple requirements toward a transcription system. Outlined in a way the community might be able to do this work
16:10:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/11-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
16:10:55 <brent> ack ivan
16:11:15 <manu> q+ to speak to Otto's solution.
16:11:38 <brent> q+
16:11:45 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: may want to check with Otto from DID working group. May be approaching this differently. Considering speech to text engine it inject them into IRC, making current tools usable.
16:11:50 <brent> ack manu
16:11:50 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to speak to Otto's solution.
16:12:45 <ivan> q+
16:12:57 <TallTed> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/01/14-vcwg-minutes.html
16:12:57 <TallTed> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2026/03/11-vcwg-minutes.html
16:13:04 <PDL_ASU> Manu: talking with Otto. Goal is to move to a transcription system ASAP. In discovery phase so many options being explored. Privious attempts (3 prior iterations) all of which generated issues, complaints.
16:13:16 <PDL_ASU> Manu: ideal outcome is moving to a new system sooner rather than later
16:13:28 <brent> ack brent
16:14:11 <brent> ack ivan
16:14:24 <PDL_ASU> Brent: if the earlier problems can be solved there is great interest in adopting it,. Anything based on Google Meet is not usable in China, hence is a non-starter.
16:15:11 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: China problem is on issue re: Google Meet. But there are other concerns around Meet, including the AI use of Meet by Google.
16:15:41 <brent> Topic: Possible F2F
16:15:50 <PDL_ASU> Brent: agrees with many flowers blooming approach. There is encouragement by W3C
16:16:36 <ivan> i/Manu: transcription tool ---/Topic: Transcription tool/
16:16:54 <PDL_ASU> Brent: F2F in Brussels in June, June 2 to 4, 2026.  But don't make travel arrrangements yet . But have room arranged by GS1
16:17:00 <brent> Topic: Charter update
16:17:49 <ivan> q+
16:17:52 <PDL_ASU> Brent: As before this meeting, Charter voting results 18 responses supporting charter as written . Voting open through 27th of Feb. Objections at last minute are common. So stay tuned
16:18:01 <brent> ack ivan
16:18:31 <brent> q+
16:19:09 <hsano> hsano has joined #vcwg
16:19:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/11-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
16:19:31 <brent> ack brent
16:19:33 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: not public yet but Ivan and the Chinese team haven't given up on a cryptosuite SM2 and SM3 into the charter. Might get comments from members in China to get it into the charter and members found later to do it. Heads up this might happen when voting closes
16:19:37 <hsano> present+
16:20:21 <PDL_ASU> Brent: urges encouraging Chinese members to make this change.
16:20:31 <PDL_ASU> Brent: encourage voting members to do so.
16:20:34 <brent> Topic: VC Data Model Issues
16:20:45 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20-label%3Afuture%20sort%3Aupdated-asc
16:21:00 <PDL_ASU> Brent: VCDM issues  looked at yesterday and everything has been triaged.
16:21:22 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1480
16:21:34 <PDL_ASU> Brent: First is Example of use of renderMethod
16:21:55 <manu> q+
16:22:00 <brent> ack manu
16:22:02 <PDL_ASU> Brent: assigned person isn't on the call. May not match current plans for the renderMethod
16:22:16 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Issue may be overtaken by events.
16:23:09 <bigbluehat> bigbluehat has joined #vcwg
16:23:26 <PDL_ASU> Manu: core of issue is the EU wants to have something to say about the renderMethod. There displayParameter is being used. Significant number of needs being met in education sector are met by current HTML renderMethod approach.
16:23:53 <ivan> q+
16:23:58 <brent> ack ivan
16:23:58 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Patrick creates PRs but this may have fallen of his list. Manu offers to do it so.
16:24:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/11-vcwg-minutes.html TallTed
16:24:22 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: If we do that we should do with confidenceMethod.
16:24:22 <dmitriz> +1 to what Manu said, we should just point to the Render Method spec
16:24:30 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: but a reference to both
16:24:50 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1593
16:26:02 <TallTed> s/fallen of his/fallen off his/
16:26:04 <manu> q+
16:26:09 <brent> ack manu
16:26:13 <PDL_ASU> Brent: Add SD-JWT-VC to Ecosystem Compatibility section - minor change. Just adding another line to the list in the spec. Anyone willing to be assigned to it? Find a link to JD-JWT-VC and adding a line to it.
16:27:26 <brent> q+
16:27:54 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Concerned that the word VC is use in the SD-JWT-VC spec incompatible about the way W3C uses Verifiable Credential. This has no relation to the W3C VC work. No mapping to VCs in general so would have to do this indivi\dually per data model
16:28:00 <brent> ack brent
16:28:16 <PDL_ASU> Brent: understanding this requet w
16:28:38 <manu> q+
16:28:50 <dlongley> perhaps we should add a line that says: "Despite the use of the term 'verifiable credentials' in the SD-JWT specifications, these specifications explicitly state they are incompatible with W3C Verifiable Credentials"
16:29:04 <brent> ack manu
16:29:11 <PDL_ASU> Understanding of the request would go into the ecosystem 5.11 ecosystem compatibility section.
16:29:33 <dlongley> s/SD-JWT specifications/SD-JWT-VC specifications/
16:29:38 <PDL_ASU> Manu: supports adding that text and clarifies it is not directly related to the W3C VCDM workgroup activity
16:30:30 <PDL_ASU> Brent: may be worthwhile to point out that we don't know all the things the transformation section  items will result in successful transformations.
16:30:58 <PDL_ASU> Brent: anyone willing to be assigned to add this to the incompatibility section.
16:31:03 <PDL_ASU> Manu: willing to give this a shot
16:31:27 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1603
16:32:26 <PDL_ASU> Manu willing to address this
16:32:38 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1617
16:32:58 <PDL_ASU> Brent: Manu raised this in Oct. haven't yet discussed it.
16:34:11 <brent> q+ to suggest removing the whole section
16:34:17 <PDL_ASU> Manu: way back in another universe thought the best thing to do would be issuing one credential claim.  A driver's license would be split into 35 different credentials, for example. Now we have selective disclosure so atomic credentials may not be the best approach.
16:34:36 <brent> ack brent
16:34:36 <Zakim> brent, you wanted to suggest removing the whole section
16:34:53 <PDL_ASU> Manu: if you want to selectively disclose use it not  individual credentials
16:34:55 <ivan> q+
16:35:01 <manu> I'd be fine w/ removing the section, too.
16:35:03 <dmitriz> q+
16:35:06 <brent> ack ivan
16:35:19 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: is that a normative section?
16:35:24 <brent> ack dmitriz
16:35:25 <PDL_ASU> Brent: no it's not
16:36:14 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: hasn't come in a while - is a VC implementation Guide a responsibility of this group.
16:36:33 <manu> q+ to speak to "age over" style VCs.
16:36:38 <brent> q+
16:36:42 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: minimize the amount of claims, kitchen sink credentials done with selective disclosure - belongs in implementation Guide
16:36:52 <manu> q- later
16:37:18 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: Have had the conversation about composite verifiable credentials. I.e., credentials which contain credentials.
16:37:59 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: CLRv2 from 1Edtech - expresses school transcript as a VC. It is compound as a credential for each class is then wrapped by an outer credential
16:38:23 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: technically  this is correct vis-a-vis VCDM but awkward.
16:39:07 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: should instead of representing compound credentials in compound form use id digest hash to link to them
16:39:31 <brent> ack brent
16:39:34 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: do we want to repurpose dependent claims to address this concept?>
16:40:04 <manu> q+ to suggest that "linking to other VCs" is different from what we meant by "dependent claims", important, but possibly different issue?
16:40:33 <dmitriz> agreed, we don't want to make removi8ng the section dependent
16:40:35 <dmitriz> let's remove
16:40:41 <manu> +1 to that ^
16:40:57 <PDL_ASU> Brent: if anyone is volunteering to become an editor of the implementation guide (not revised since 2019)? Bundling dependent claims fits well into the revised implementation guide. But doesn't want to close this issue dependent on revising the implementation guide.
16:41:01 <dmitriz> so, +1 from me to removing this current section & closing this issue
16:41:16 <dlongley> +1 to remove the section and let the future take whatever direction wrt. linked VCs
16:41:42 <dmitriz> I can do that.
16:41:42 <PDL_ASU> Brent: will open an issue in the implementation guide repo addressing this issue, link to it and remove the section PR.
16:41:57 <PDL_ASU> Brent: Dmitri has volunteered
16:42:27 <PDL_ASU> Brent: would raise the issue in the implementation guide or Dmitri would you like to?
16:42:29 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/vc-imp-guide/
16:42:54 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: willing to take this on. Close this one after PR re: implementation Guide
16:42:59 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1592
16:43:13 <manu> q+
16:43:29 <PDL_ASU> Brent: Multiple comments on intro section. Manu assigned to himself a year ago.
16:43:29 <brent> ack manu
16:43:29 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to speak to "age over" style VCs. and to suggest that "linking to other VCs" is different from what we meant by "dependent claims", important, but possibly
16:43:32 <Zakim> ... different issue? and to
16:44:17 <PDL_ASU> Manu: happy for someone else to take this one. Maybe history of why it is what is  would be something Manu has knowledge about.
16:44:34 <PDL_ASU> Brent:  neglected to ask Manu in last conversation - apologies
16:44:50 <manu> q+ to suggest some changes.
16:45:00 <brent> ack manu
16:45:00 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to suggest some changes.
16:45:02 <PDL_ASU> Brent: not opposed to having a conversation about it. More productive to discuss with concrete changes in a PR
16:45:17 <PDL_ASU> Manu: to make it easier for someone else to raise a PR....
16:45:42 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Paragraph 1 doesn't define what VC and link to said definition should be made.
16:46:33 <PDL_ASU> Manu: physical equivalence understood by average user by not for other part isn't.
16:46:43 <dlongley> note: various physical "watermarks"/other security mechanisms, etc. ... aren't necessarily very intuitive either
16:47:26 <PDL_ASU> Manu: unclear if mentioning business rules would help. The process a verifier runs is helpful to understand this.
16:47:57 <PDL_ASU> Manu: examples of  holders is provided. Concern is might cause confusion but was added because leaving it out did cause confusion
16:48:33 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Should we link to something about subject being the holder and point to that implementation guide section
16:49:15 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Examples of verifying VC are confusing. Have a section on what is processed in the document and should repeat that.
16:49:46 <dlongley> "Does the role 'verifier' not include the process of 'verifying' the correctness ... of a claim" <-- definitely not, this is specifically avoided through the use of trust in the issuer instead
16:49:53 <PDL_ASU> Manu: bullet 4 - confusing and definitions missing. Have to take a look and see what can be done.
16:50:23 <PDL_ASU> Manu: figure 1 how do you identify identifiers?  See proof of possession orypto key, might be useful
16:51:13 <dlongley> ecosystem is not used as a proper noun
16:51:27 <PDL_ASU> Many: why are we using ecosystem? Is it not also a protected environment or proprietary system? Ecosystems come in many forms. Can do it multiple ways. Shouldn't remove the language as request isn't clear.
16:52:34 <PDL_ASU> Manu: federated ID model and what we're presenting is not clear. We aren't clear about federated ID and what we are doing Federated ID is 2-party model, W3C is a 3-party model. May need to explain the differences.  Ask for clarification
16:52:55 <PDL_ASU> Brent: currently Manu is assigned to this issue and wishes not to be.
16:53:21 <PDL_ASU> Brent: who else can take this on and make one or more PRs to address the concerns
16:53:52 <PDL_ASU> Brent: long pause.....
16:54:29 <PDL_ASU> lost my audio  can some take this while i fix it?
16:54:51 <manu> dmitriz: Maybe we can come back to this
16:55:07 <PDL_ASU> Dmitri: should we address another time?
16:55:10 <PDL_ASU> Brent: yes come back to it later
16:55:14 <brent> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1583
16:55:27 <manu> q+
16:55:49 <brent> ack manu
16:55:50 <PDL_ASU> Brent: security review recommended the security considerations should be modified. Didn't tackle it then and said it would be future work
16:56:13 <ivan> q+
16:56:32 <PDL_ASU> Manu: threat modeling guide has been written and its comprehensive an well written. Working groups should include threat modeling in each of the groups.
16:56:49 <PDL_ASU> Brent: expects a request for threat model for the W3C ecosystem.
16:57:22 <PDL_ASU> Manu: every spec should have a threat modeling guide. But that's wishful thinking as they are significant piece of work
16:58:25 <brent> ack ivan
16:58:31 <PDL_ASU> Manu: Threat modeling might become a web of guides pointing to each other anchored to the VCDM threat model - may become the future state. Likely need to do one for VCDM v1.1 - SHould close this and agree to do one for VCDM
16:59:22 <manu> q+ to ask Joe and Simone about what they'd suggest.
16:59:36 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: is uneasy because many of these are for specs in document mode.  This could be an issue for existing specs which are more complicated. Should do this going forward, not retrospectively.
17:00:07 <PDL_ASU> Ivan: these re in document maintenance mode.
17:00:12 <brent> ack manu
17:00:12 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask Joe and Simone about what they'd suggest.
17:00:36 <PDL_ASU> Manu: lets talk to Joe and Simone for suggestions
17:00:40 <PDL_ASU> Brent: At time.
17:00:53 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:00:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/11-vcwg-minutes.html ivan
17:02:04 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:02:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items