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14:50:12 <fabien_gandon> Zakim, what is agenda?
14:50:12 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:50:33 <fabien_gandon> agenda+ Check the regluar Web & AI IG meeting time
14:50:42 <fabien_gandon> agenda+ AI and Accessibility
14:50:49 <fabien_gandon> agenda+ AI ethical principles
14:54:32 <janina> janina has joined #webai
14:57:35 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:57:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi
14:58:03 <janina> present+
14:58:08 <fabien_gandon> present+
14:58:21 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, make minutes public
14:58:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes public', Roy_Ruoxi
14:58:46 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make log public
14:58:53 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:58:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi
14:59:00 <fabien_gandon> Meeting: Web & AI IG meeting 09/02/206
14:59:14 <fabien_gandon> Chair: Fabien Gandon
14:59:17 <Roy_Ruoxi> present+
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14:59:50 <fabien_gandon> Zakim, what is agenda?
14:59:50 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:59:51 <Zakim> 1. Check the regluar Web & AI IG meeting time [from fabien_gandon]
14:59:51 <Zakim> 2. AI and Accessibility [from fabien_gandon]
14:59:51 <Zakim> 3. AI ethical principles [from fabien_gandon]
14:59:53 <matatk> present+ Matthew_Atkinson
14:59:54 <shawn> present+
14:59:59 <anssik> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
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15:00:16 <christianliebel> Present+
15:00:23 <AlexDawson> present+
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15:00:58 <tzviya> present+
15:01:47 <JeffAdams-UN> present+
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15:03:44 <JenStrickland> present+
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15:04:12 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:04:12 <Zakim> Present: janina, fabien_gandon, Roy_Ruoxi, Matthew_Atkinson, shawn, Anssi_Kostiainen, christianliebel, AlexDawson, tzviya, JeffAdams-UN, JenStrickland
15:04:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see mala, jasonjgw, JenStrickland, halo, Ehsan, Henny, tzviya, JeffAdams-UN, Shouqun, AlexDawson, christianliebel, anssik, shawn, matatk, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim,
15:04:15 <Zakim> ... fabien_gandon, Roy_Ruoxi, dom, tink
15:04:17 <fabien_gandon> Zakim, start this meeting
15:04:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:04:18 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), fabien_gandon
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15:04:38 <janina> present+
15:04:49 <jasonjgw> present+
15:05:01 <fabien_gandon> present+
15:05:13 <santanavagner> present+
15:05:15 <mala> present+
15:05:50 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, next item
15:05:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Check the regluar Web & AI IG meeting time -- taken up [from fabien_gandon]
15:06:07 <Roy_Ruoxi> scribe+
15:06:42 <Roy_Ruoxi> https://github.com/w3c/webai/issues/4
15:07:02 <JenStrickland> q+
15:07:09 <Roy_Ruoxi> Fabien: Max had this proposal to have a rotating meeting time
15:07:14 <Paola> Paola has joined #webai
15:07:18 <mala> +1 to rotating time slots
15:07:32 <rtroncy> rtroncy has joined #webai
15:07:48 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... leave your feed back in above issue
15:07:59 <Roy_Ruoxi> +1 from Janina
15:08:08 <Roy_Ruoxi> ack JenStrickland
15:08:16 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:08:33 <Paola> for me this time is a bit late, but it could be worse, so for me it depends which way the rotation goes. whatever works for everyone
15:08:45 <Paola> how can I help to scribe?
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15:09:21 <rtroncy> Rotating time slot is more fair for people around the globe
15:09:32 <Roy_Ruoxi> JenStrickland: his is my first time coming to this, it's great to have global people to join
15:09:34 <mgifford2> +1
15:09:38 <Henny> +1 to rotating
15:09:41 <mgifford2> Rotating makes sense
15:09:54 <Roy_Ruoxi> Fabian: anyone against rotating
15:10:03 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... hear none
15:10:09 <fabien_gandon> next agendum
15:10:13 <rtroncy> Link to the issue: https://github.com/w3c/webai/issues/4
15:10:14 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, next item
15:10:14 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, Roy_Ruoxi
15:10:21 <mgifford2> I'm going to have to jump off in about 15 minutes. Sorry.
15:10:49 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:10:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html matatk
15:11:39 <Roy_Ruoxi> agenda?
15:11:45 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, next item
15:11:45 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- AI ethical principles -- taken up [from fabien_gandon]
15:11:55 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, take up item 2
15:11:55 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- AI and Accessibility -- taken up [from fabien_gandon]
15:12:00 <matatk> I'll recap my AC2025 talk, the video and transcript you can find here: https://www.w3.org/2025/04/AC/talk/atkinson#talk
15:12:00 <matatk> The slides are here: https://www.w3.org/2025/Talks/AC/lt-accessibility-matthew-atkinson/
15:12:00 <matatk> After this I'll talk about a few developments that have happened since, which have relevance for accessibility, and we can move into a discussion about them. These 3 areas are: discussions around accessibility metadata and AI; further exploration of the agentic paradigm; and national standards work around AI and accessibility.
15:12:33 <Roy_Ruoxi> slides: https://www.w3.org/2025/Talks/AC/lt-accessibility-matthew-atkinson/
15:12:56 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 2]
15:13:20 <Roy_Ruoxi> matatk: https://www.w3.org/2025/Talks/AC/lt-accessibility-matthew-atkinson/
15:13:40 <Roy_Ruoxi> matatk: All that stuff that we're calling Ai is a tool.
15:13:57 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 4]
15:14:02 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:14:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi
15:14:09 <JenStrickland> Please mute if you're not speaking. There's a random noise that keeps happening. Thanks!
15:14:47 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 5]
15:16:04 <Roy_Ruoxi> matatk: We have horizontal reviews—there are groups that review upcoming proposals for accessibility, internationalization, security, Privacy and general architectural, fit for the web platform.
15:17:23 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 6]
15:18:24 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 8]
15:18:50 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 10]
15:19:43 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 12]
15:20:08 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 13]
15:20:25 <JenStrickland> If you have admin privileges for zoom, would you please mute mike Gifford?
15:21:05 <Roy_Ruoxi> s/If you have admin privileges for zoom, would you please mute mike Gifford?//
15:21:23 <JenStrickland> Thank you so much, Roy!
15:22:31 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 17]
15:23:42 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:23:46 <Roy_Ruoxi> [slide 21]
15:24:35 <Roy_Ruoxi> matatk: The 1st one is. Discussions around accessibility, metadata and AI
15:26:36 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... we realized that machines could really benefit from this sort of information, as well sort of same posting. but we do need to be very careful that we don't misuse these rich set of accessibility attributes that we have for content.
15:27:10 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... 2nd generative AI
15:28:00 <matatk> https://ourtake.bakerbotts.com/post/102lx09/canada-releases-accessibility-standard-for-artificial-intelligence
15:28:13 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... everything generative, but we need careful about accessibility and hallucinate
15:28:38 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... 3rd, at the national level of around standards relating to AI
15:28:49 <anssik> q+
15:28:57 <fabien_gandon> ack
15:28:58 <Roy_Ruoxi> ack anssik
15:29:19 <janina> q+
15:29:19 <fabien_gandon> q+ to ask How to make the provenance accessible? Is there work on how to know at anytime and across changing contexts the provenance of every element of context and in particular if it was generated?
15:29:30 <fabien_gandon> ack next
15:29:35 <Roy_Ruoxi> anssik: talked about webMCP
15:29:55 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... also need talk this together about accessibility
15:29:55 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:30:31 <Roy_Ruoxi> janina: when I think about AI, I think about patterns.
15:32:11 <anssik> -> WebMCP accessibility considerations https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmcp/issues/65
15:32:32 <JenStrickland> q+
15:32:51 <fabien_gandon> ack next
15:32:52 <Zakim> fabien_gandon, you wanted to ask How to make the provenance accessible? Is there work on how to know at anytime and across changing contexts the provenance of every element of
15:32:52 <Zakim> ... context and in particular if it was generated?
15:33:13 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... AI is essentially a powerful pattern matcher that rapidly processes large amounts of information and generates new content based on those learned patterns and our instructions. In a private, on-device, agentic context, it could act as a personalized assistant，observing how a user interacts with a system and offering timely, opt-in guidance to
15:33:13 <Roy_Ruoxi> improve efficiency, especially when adapting to new tools or environments
15:34:47 <JenStrickland> When I speak I will have a response to fabien_gandon's question.
15:35:07 <Roy_Ruoxi> fabien: is there anyone working on the accessibility of the provenance？
15:35:53 <matatk> q+
15:35:56 <tzviya> q+ to respond to fab
15:36:48 <Roy_Ruoxi> q?
15:36:56 <Roy_Ruoxi> ack tzviya
15:36:56 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to respond to fab
15:37:37 <Roy_Ruoxi> tzviya: don't have particular knowledge of a group working on this, but I I'm sure about the the work happening in the ietf with ai preferences and things like that.
15:37:49 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:38:13 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... this is just metadata at this point. I think it's actually a great suggestion for this group. this is something that should be done by browsers.
15:38:19 <Roy_Ruoxi> ack jen
15:40:13 <Roy_Ruoxi> JenStrickland: I worked a lot on AI assurance, Whatever is being presented so incorporating principles of AI assurance in the work would be a way of helping to evolve this and be able to surface the accessibility.
15:41:02 <matatk> Concerned about flagging things as AI-generated - is it solving the right problem? And would it actually work? For example...
15:41:02 <matatk> Do we really want to know if it's AI-generated or whether it's accurate? E.g. human may fail to fill in alt text for an image. AI may do it well or badly.
15:41:02 <matatk> If we have an attribute to indicate something is AI-generated it may give false impression that something that _doesn't_ have the attribute is _not_ AI-generated, but it could be.
15:41:21 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, next item
15:41:23 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Roy_Ruoxi
15:41:25 <matatk> ack me
15:41:29 <Roy_Ruoxi> zakim, next item
15:41:29 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- AI ethical principles -- taken up [from fabien_gandon]
15:42:45 <Roy_Ruoxi> anssik: presentation about Ethical Principles for Web Machine Learning
15:43:18 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... background: WebML launched at 2021
15:43:40 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... publication from WebML WG
15:44:21 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... web machine learning allows model run in client or cloud
15:45:42 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... use cases: person detection, facial recognition etc,
15:46:03 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... nowadays, generative AI
15:46:13 <matatk> s/fill in alt text for an image/fill in alt text for an image, or do it badly/
15:46:37 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:46:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html matatk
15:46:44 <JenStrickland> MITRE's publicly available AI Assurance materials: [a] https://www.mitre.org/focus-areas/artificial-intelligence/ai-assurance [b] https://www.mitre.org/news-insights/publication/ai-assurance-repeatable-process-assuring-ai-enabled-systems [c] https://www.dmi-ida.org/knowledge-base-detail/A-Framework-for-the-Assurance-of-AI-Enabled-Systems [d]
15:46:44 <JenStrickland> https://wbjournal.com/article/umass-chan-to-open-ai-assurance-lab-to-validate-use-of-the-technology-in-health-care/ [e] https://www.mitre.org/news-insights/news-release/mitre-opens-new-ai-assurance-and-discovery-lab [f] I can't locate the AI Assurance Knowledge Base. It may have been cut under the current administration, or just become not publicly
15:46:44 <JenStrickland> noted.
15:49:07 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... running ML workflows on the client enables large-scale deployment without costly cloud infrastructure, benefiting small and long-tail developers while aligning with decentralized web principles, reducing single points of failure, and lowering latency for use cases like immersive experiences and accessibility.
15:49:07 <Roy_Ruoxi> It also improves privacy by keeping data local in the browser, though it raises ethical considerations that the working group aims to address.
15:49:46 <janina> q+ to disagree --It's not the tech that has ethical value, it's the use humans make of the tech. Example: fire can warm you and cook your food, or be used to terrorize by burning a city like Los Angeles
15:50:23 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... Ethics is about what is right and wrong, and technology is never neutral,it always carries social and ethical implications. Failing to consider those implications can cause real harm, so even if we can’t solve everything, we have a shared responsibility in the web ecosystem to act ethically and improve the situation.
15:53:14 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... current ethical issues address in our document, and we borrowed principals from  UNESCO
15:54:17 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... we now have the deliverable the ethical framework doc  as W3C note
15:54:28 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:54:58 <fabien_gandon> q+ to ask how you weave the principles with the daily technical work of the WG ?
15:55:09 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... We had established this doc as a joint deliver between the WebML WG and this IG. more feedback and review needed.
15:55:41 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:55:46 <Roy_Ruoxi> ack janina
15:55:46 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to disagree --It's not the tech that has ethical value, it's the use humans make of the tech. Example: fire can warm you and cook your food, or be used to
15:55:49 <Zakim> ... terrorize by burning a city like Los Angeles
15:56:49 <tzviya> q+ paola, mihai
15:57:42 <Roy_Ruoxi> Janina: talked that technology itself isn’t inherently ethical or unethical, it’s how humans design and use it, as shown clearly by accessibility being a result of design choices that can always be changed.
15:57:46 <fabien_gandon> q?
15:57:52 <Roy_Ruoxi> ack fabien_gandon
15:57:52 <Zakim> fabien_gandon, you wanted to ask how you weave the principles with the daily technical work of the WG ?
15:58:12 <matatk> s/if it's AI-generated or whether it's accurate/if it's AI-generated, or whether it's accurate/
15:58:19 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html matatk
15:59:05 <Roy_Ruoxi> anssik: The ethical principles is a separate doc that is referenced.
15:59:21 <fabien_gandon> q?
16:00:04 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... Ethical principles are defined in a separate document referenced by technical specs like the Web Neural Network API, and while the group has recently focused on technical work, there’s strong interest in revitalizing and maintaining this ethics deliverable with help from experts in the Interest Group.
16:00:19 <fabien_gandon> q?
16:00:26 <fabien_gandon> ack paola
16:00:44 <Roy_Ruoxi> anssik: you can find other resource in our github repo
16:01:22 <fabien_gandon> ack mihai
16:01:25 <janina> I need to leave, but look forward to reading and making suggestions to the ethical docs. Will also reference them in our work. Thank you!
16:01:26 <Roy_Ruoxi> ... We have Demos and and a lot of sample code and all that available for developers to use.
16:01:50 <fabien_gandon> Zakim, close the queue
16:01:50 <Zakim> ok, fabien_gandon, the speaker queue is closed
16:01:52 <anssik> -> https://github.com/webmachinelearning/webmachinelearning-ethics/issues/21
16:02:01 <Roy_Ruoxi> mihai: could you share the the guidebook?
16:02:41 <Roy_Ruoxi> anssik: linked share above
16:03:00 <Roy_Ruoxi> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:03:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html Roy_Ruoxi
16:03:25 <fabien_gandon> Zakim, end this meeting
16:03:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, fabien_gandon, Roy_Ruoxi, Matthew_Atkinson, shawn, Anssi_Kostiainen, christianliebel, AlexDawson, tzviya, JeffAdams-UN,
16:03:29 <Zakim> ... JenStrickland, jasonjgw, santanavagner, mala
16:03:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:03:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/09-webai-minutes.html Zakim
16:03:36 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, fabien_gandon; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:03:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webai
16:04:04 <Roy_Ruoxi> I will fix minutes
16:04:37 <fabien_gandon> Thank you ROy for scribing
19:42:34 <janina> janina has left #webai