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15:58:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/02/05-coga-irc
15:58:58 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:58:59 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:59:07 <julierawe> meeting: COGA Guidance Subgroup Meeting
15:59:18 <julierawe> date: 5 feb 2026
15:59:19 <julierawe> chair: juli
15:59:25 <julierawe> present+
15:59:30 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
15:59:33 <julierawe> agenda?
15:59:40 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
15:59:40 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:00:00 <julierawe> agenda+ "How to test" section of V2 pattern on interactive elements
16:00:17 <Lisa> Lisa has joined #coga
16:03:53 <Lisa> present+
16:04:55 <julierawe> present+ kirkwood
16:05:27 <julierawe> Should we include a section on automated testing? Current draft basically says that automated testing should try to create an algorithm that does what the expert testing does.
16:06:52 <julierawe> Lisa Some things can be tested straightaway with automated testing, like is there an H1.
16:07:14 <julierawe> Lisa Without AI, what would you need a warning for?
16:07:56 <julierawe> Lisa We can make clear what is testable with AI and what isn't?
16:09:38 <julierawe> julierawe Is the point of the automated testing section to point out what will be difficult to test with automated testing?
16:10:43 <julierawe> Lisa I'm looking ahead to how you could test in WCAG 3
16:11:00 <julierawe> julierawe I want us to focus on testing in V2 of Making Content Usable
16:11:35 <julierawe> Lisa If you have a procurement process, want to know what automated test can and can't do for testing V2 of Making Content Usable.
16:12:17 <julierawe> Lisa I think it's worth keeping automated testing in this draft and getting feedback on it.
16:12:42 <julierawe> Lisa One of our audiences is tool creators.
16:13:05 <julierawe> Lisa It's important for say what we think is needed to be a good tool.
16:15:27 <julierawe> julierawe You've convinced me to keep it in and get feedback on it.
16:16:10 <julierawe> Action item: Include in the "Status of this document" section a review question asking for feedback on the automated testing section. Do people think it's useful? How might we make it more useful?
16:23:03 <julierawe> Lisa The editor's note can say these sections are not robust, but if people like these sections, we can make them more robust
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16:25:57 <julierawe> julierawe What is meant by "one recommended path"? Are we saying users need to do all three kinds of testing?
16:26:02 <LenB> present+
16:40:13 <julierawe> julierawe Where do the specifics come from in the testing for size and spacing?
16:40:43 <julierawe> Lisa I came up with them.
16:47:11 <julierawe> julierawe We will check with Rain and Jen about the soon-to-be-published paper. Hopefully it has specifics on size and spacing so we can include those specifics and point to the published research on it.
16:47:34 <julierawe> julierawe We need to rework the testing on non-interactive vs interactive elements.
16:48:33 <julierawe> present+ LenB
16:49:34 <julierawe> LenB mentioned carets and chevrons are being used at the end of a heading.
16:49:52 <julierawe> LenB the caret is a control
16:50:55 <julierawe> Action item: Len will think about how to rework the testing section on interactive versus non-interactive.
16:51:59 <julierawe> julierawe When does the roll-back option need to be available?
16:53:15 <julierawe> Lisa Maybe when essential tasks have a different flow?
16:54:05 <julierawe> kirkwood Maybe it needs to be available for the first month after a change?
16:54:15 <julierawe> Lisa What is the threshhold for this is something that needs a rollback?
16:56:14 <julierawe> julierawe We need to clarify/define what changes trigger the need for a roll-back option
16:56:41 <julierawe> julierawe We also need to clarify how many versions developers need to provide roll-back options.
16:57:34 <julierawe> kirkwood We need to be more specific
16:58:29 <julierawe> Lisa With aging, many people have trouble learning new things.
16:59:01 <julierawe> Lisa Switching from old tv to new smart tv — provide the old remote or they may need a caregiver to operate the tv for them.
16:59:13 <julierawe> Lisa We provided instructions in a manual
17:01:47 <julierawe> kirkwood Could we provide a roll-back view and compare to where things are now, rather than providing an actual roll-back.
17:02:24 <julierawe> kirkwood We could say to provide a roll-back view, rather a roll-back version. Maintaining the old version does not seem feasible.
17:05:38 <julierawe> Lisa Maybe it needs to be printable?
17:06:12 <julierawe> LenB I can't print from my car or from my watch, but it is an interesting idea to tell people where they could go to get that information.
17:07:45 <julierawe> Lisa I know it's not convenient, but having time when the roll-back exists, and having the manual also there, this could give people a chance to learn the new system at a less stressful time.
17:08:38 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/02/05-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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