14:49:45 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 14:49:49 logging to https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-irc 14:50:06 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/9449974b-72da-42a3-988a-1ccae4c25616/20260129T150000/ 14:50:06 clear agenda 14:50:06 agenda+ Agenda Review 14:50:06 agenda+ Action Items 14:50:08 agenda+ Info Share 14:50:10 agenda+ Review RADAR Review 14:50:12 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 14:50:15 agenda+ Canonicalization of tags in :lang() selector 14:50:17 agenda+ Potential FO on WCAG definitions 14:50:20 agenda+ AOB? 14:50:43 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 14:50:51 Chair: Joel Sahleen 14:51:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html jsahleen 14:51:49 agenda+ Definition of Mojibake 14:52:33 agenda+ Publication of ruby-tts-req 14:52:38 agenda? 14:54:42 addison has joined #i18n 14:55:03 MURATA has joined #i18n 14:55:14 present+ 14:57:03 present+ 14:57:48 present+ 15:00:29 JcK has joined #i18n 15:02:01 present+ 15:02:04 scribe+ 15:02:08 agenda? 15:02:22 present+ 15:02:37 Zakim, take up item1 15:02:37 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:02:45 Zakim, take up item2 15:02:45 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:02:53 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:02:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:03:01 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues 15:03:02 #205 15:03:03 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/205 -> Action 205 Fix markup, style and font for Mojibake definition (on xfq) 15:03:18 close #205 15:03:20 Closed -> issue #205 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/205 15:03:24 reopen #205 15:03:35 Reopened -> issue #205 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/205 Fix markup, style and font for Mojibake definition 15:03:35 #204 15:03:35 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/204 -> Action 204 respond to SHACL PR and issues with comments about bidi (on aphillips) due 2026-01-29 15:03:50 #202 15:03:51 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/202 -> Issue 202 Martin Duerst response on URL standard gaps (by jsahleen) 15:03:56 xfq: done #205 15:04:03 #197 15:04:04 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/197 -> Action 197 rename the repo and shortname and publish ruby accessibility document as a first draft note (on xfq, himorin) due 2025-11-18 15:04:23 xfq: done #197 15:05:03 Zakim, take up item3 15:05:03 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:05:22 Zakim, take up item4 15:05:22 agendum 4 -- Review RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:05:36 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/91/views/1 15:06:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/288 15:06:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/288 -> Issue 288 SHACL 1.2 SPARQL 2025-12-01 > 2025-01-22 (by nicholascar) [REVIEW REQUESTED] [LC] 15:06:33 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/283 15:06:34 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/283 -> Issue 283 SHACL 1.2 Core 2025-11-03 > 2025-01-15 (by nicholascar) [REVIEW REQUESTED] [SR] [LC] 15:06:49 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/281 15:06:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/issues/281 -> Issue 281 Web Sustainability Guidelines 2025-10-22 > 2026-01-09 (by mgifford) [REVIEW REQUESTED] [WD] 15:06:58 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Aig%3Asustainableweb 15:07:27 agenda? 15:07:41 Zakim, take up item5 15:07:41 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:07:49 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2072 15:07:50 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2072 -> Issue 2072 Ambiguity of the term "character" and its impact on internationalization and testability (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:wcag] 15:07:58 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2071 15:07:59 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/2071 -> Issue 2071 Ambiguity of the term "word" and its impact on internationalization and testability (by w3cbot) [pending] [tracker] [s:wcag] 15:08:37 MURATA: I'm the ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC 34 chair elect 15:09:08 ... I'm now also a member of the JTC 1 Japan Committee from this year I'll be attending the JTC 1 meetings 15:09:57 ... these 2 issues are about text and wording subgroup of AG WG 15:10:12 ... their primary resources are the English dictionaries 15:10:13 q+ 15:10:17 ... not the Unicode standard 15:10:29 ... 10646, or charmod 15:10:38 ... in a very naive manner 15:10:54 ... they should read Unicode and 10646 15:11:03 addison: I agree with you that this is a problem 15:11:10 ... it's a common problem in our space 15:12:22 ack addison 15:13:12 addison: xfq provided a link to our specdev document, which tries to do a more condensed job of saying charmod 15:13:40 MURATA: so far, the feedback I have received from AG WG is superficial 15:14:05 ... they just want to borrow some definition 15:14:29 Responses forwarded from WCAG: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2026JanMar/0036.html 15:14:34 ... there are no universal definition of 'word' applicable to every language in the world 15:15:09 ... and I don't think that was good units for accessibility 15:15:57 Zakim, take up item7 15:15:59 agendum 7 -- Potential FO on WCAG definitions -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:16:59 MURATA: I've filed an FO, if the charter is not modified in a way satisfactory, I plan to file another FO 15:17:27 ... I'm pessimistic about we can make good progress on fixing terminology 15:17:56 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:17:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:18:25 present+ Bert 15:18:40 present+ JcK 15:18:42 present+ r12a 15:19:17 addison: they need to collect more than just English, or Western European languages 15:19:32 ... because they tend to have very, very similar typographic requirements etc. 15:19:53 ... they can't do it for every language on earth easily 15:20:06 ... but they need some kind of mechanism 15:20:30 MURATA: they should pay more attention to text content 15:21:06 ... i18n, or the lack of i18n, in WCAG 3, is even more serious 15:21:23 jsahleen: what is the proposed release date for WCAG 3? 15:22:19 xfq: It's probably not going to be released anytime soon; it might take several years before it's officially released 15:23:11 r12a: what specifically are you objecting to? 15:23:30 MURATA: I have 2 FOs in mind, one for the charter, one for the content of the WD 15:23:51 ... of WCAG 3 15:24:15 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:24:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:25:00 jsahleen: so the FO you were planning on raising in the near term is against the charter? 15:25:02 MURATA: yes 15:25:23 ... but if the WD incorporates the terms and definitions from the text and wording subgroup 15:25:33 ... I'll file another FO in the near future 15:26:06 addison: maybe the question is whether the i18n WG would endorse the objection 15:26:20 MURATA: that's up to you 15:27:41 [Discuss charter timeline] 15:27:50 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:27:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:28:52 r12a: I think it would be useful for us to be able to follow the conversation 15:29:17 ... it might be useful if we were in the loop somehow 15:30:36 jsahleen: we need to work on improving communications with them and see if we can get in the loop 15:30:42 MURATA: that's fine 15:30:50 r12a: how will we do it? 15:31:05 agenda? 15:31:08 jsahleen: forward me the email 15:31:33 agenda? 15:32:02 Zakim, take up item6 15:32:02 agendum 6 -- Canonicalization of tags in :lang() selector -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:32:21 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4154 15:32:22 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4154 -> Issue 4154 Consider Canonicalization of language tags in :lang() selector maching (by frivoal) [selectors-4] [i18n-needs-resolution] [i18n-tracker] [Agenda+ F2F] [Needs Review of Proposed Text] [selectors-5] [Agenda+ i18n] 15:32:47 addison: we talked to them at the previous TPAC 15:33:53 ... the idea is that if you have the lang tag in :lang() as a range that ought to be canonicalized 15:34:01 ... so that they will match more effectively 15:34:54 ... @@2 15:35:07 ... there's some specific text in RFC 5646 15:35:48 ... they could add the additional CLDR stuff if they wanted to 15:36:09 jsahleen: sounds like a very straight forward discussion 15:36:26 addison: should be straightforward 15:36:33 s/straight forward/straightforward 15:37:23 r12a: part of the issue that they were trying to canonicalize zh-HK 15:37:45 ... there's nothing in BCP 47 registry that includes what that would canonicalize to 15:37:59 addison: it canonicalizes to itself 15:38:21 ... Chinese is particularly complicated in this case 15:38:45 ... just pure BCP 47 matching says the strings match or they don't match 15:38:52 ... zh-HK is probably Cantonese 15:38:59 ... so probably should match 'yue' 15:39:04 ... but it doesn't 15:39:12 ... because those are different tags 15:39:20 ... and zh-HK doesn't match zh-Hant 15:39:30 ... unless you're going to use the CLDR stuff 15:39:43 ... which computes the script subtag 15:40:39 r12a: the reason that we're talking about that is because florian cited that as a thing that would be canonicalized in his list of three examples 15:40:51 ... zh-HK, zh-yue, and yue 15:41:03 addison: if they follow BCP 47 15:41:07 ... zh-yue would match yue 15:41:20 ... because the primary would be removed 15:41:33 ... but zh-HK would never match either of those things 15:41:39 ... it's a quirk 15:42:11 jsahleen: there's a distinction between what CLDR does and what's specified in the RFC 15:42:23 addison: CLDR uses additional data to compute missing subtags 15:42:44 JcK: CLDR does not contradict BCP 47 15:42:50 ... just adds on to it 15:42:53 addison: right 15:43:25 addison: grandfathered Chinese tags map to modern tags 15:43:35 ... zh-yue is also a grandfathered tag 15:44:10 ... they could incorporate additional canonicalization to address some of the problems they notice if they wanted to 15:44:19 ... but we should discuss that 15:44:36 r12a: what about canonicalzing script tags? 15:44:54 addison: then you need the CLDR data 15:45:02 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:45:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:46:36 agenda? 15:46:49 Zakim, take up item9 15:46:49 agendum 9 -- Definition of Mojibake -- taken up [from jsahleen] 15:46:58 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/95 15:46:59 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/95 -> Pull Request 95 Update the definition of 'Mojibake' (by xfq) 15:47:55 https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/95.html#dfn-mojibake 15:49:11 [xfq introduces the changes] 15:50:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/96 15:50:11 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/issues/96 -> Issue 96 Add a definition for tofu (by xfq) 15:54:09 Zakim, take up item9 15:54:09 agendum 9 -- Definition of Mojibake -- taken up [from jsahleen] 15:54:17 All: ok to merge, and work on the tofu definition 15:54:18 Zakim, take up item 10 15:54:18 agendum 10 -- Publication of ruby-tts-req -- taken up [from jsahleen] 15:56:18 new link for CSSWG meeting: https://appleinc.webex.com/appleinc/j.php?MTID=m0285cd91a3df484dd3d7e83c61418a8f 15:57:11 addison: this is a first draft 15:57:48 r12a: we've always in the past reviewed it internally before we send it out for publication 15:58:37 https://github.com/w3c/ruby-tts-req/issues/48 15:58:38 https://github.com/w3c/ruby-tts-req/issues/48 -> Issue 48 Publication (by fantasai) 15:59:47 https://www.w3.org/2025/11/11-i18n-minutes.html#7242 16:00:52 jsahleen: next time we publish something, internal review before it goes out the door 16:01:50 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:01:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:01:57 I have another WG meeting... sorry 16:08:09 bigbluehat has joined #i18n