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15:53:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:53:17 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:53:54 <julierawe> Meeting: COGA Guidance Subgroup Call
15:53:59 <julierawe> date: 29 jan 2026
15:54:03 <julierawe> present+
15:54:07 <julierawe> chair: julierawe
15:54:11 <julierawe> agenda?
15:54:24 <julierawe> zakim, clear agenda
15:54:24 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:54:31 <julierawe> agenda+
15:55:06 <julierawe> agenda+ Welcoming Jen to our subgroup
15:56:10 <julierawe> agenda+ V2 pattern about page purpose: Review all the illustrations in the "What to do" section
15:56:47 <julierawe> agenda+ V2 pattern about interactive elements: Review Gareth's updated illustrations
15:57:14 <julierawe> agenda+ "WCAG compatibility" section intro (revised based on Global Inclusion feedback)
15:57:48 <julierawe> agenda+ "How it helps" section: Any concerns about the introduction paragraph and two user stories?
16:00:16 <julierawe> regrets Charli
16:00:22 <julierawe> regrets+ Charli
16:01:36 <JenniferR> JenniferR has joined #coga
16:02:08 <JenniferR> present +
16:02:29 <JenniferR> present+
16:02:54 <Rashmi> Rashmi has joined #coga
16:03:02 <Rashmi> present+
16:03:10 <julierawe> zakim, next item
16:03:11 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Welcoming Jen to our subgroup -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:03:39 <JenniferR> Happy to be here!
16:04:27 <LenB> LenB has joined #coga
16:04:31 <LenB> present+
16:05:22 <julierawe> julierawe gave Jen an overview of the subgroup
16:06:09 <LenB> scribe+
16:06:59 <julierawe> agenda?
16:08:26 <julierawe> agenda+ Rashi concerns
16:08:34 <julierawe> zakim, take up item 6
16:08:35 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Rashi concerns -- taken up [from julierawe]
16:09:10 <LenB> Rashmi page purpose section
16:09:23 <julierawe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uAVRkNIgd3XlUIGQ6Gq-ZOcnwsFvIM9UJ1dNyHq8NSQ/edit?pli=1&tab=t.bsh23yg8s3cz
16:11:54 <LenB> ... in the signposts section we say 'breadcrumbs' but our illustration is really about a progress bar.
16:11:57 <JenniferR> q+
16:12:34 <LenB> ... progress bar and breadcrumbs could both be examples.
16:12:54 <LenB> ... we can keep breadcrumb but not as a trask example.
16:13:16 <LenB> julierawe good point and we can keep the breadcrumb with a future link
16:13:22 <LenB> ack JenniferR
16:13:55 <LenB> JenniferR this is a good change and I think making sure we mention that it will be discussed later in the doc will help.
16:14:47 <JenniferR> q+
16:15:11 <LenB> julierawe We could add signposts as a definition. Wondering if we need to get our examples and our definitions absolutely perfect.
16:15:37 <LenB> Action: add a signpost definition in our issues and terms tabs.
16:15:44 <JenniferR> q-
16:17:20 <LenB> Rashmi not sure what the tab illustration is representing. The don't example doesn't have any text in the tab and isn't a real-life example.
16:17:59 <LenB> julierawe We need to figure out what the better example is. This is the first pass at these illustrations. All recommendations are welcome.
16:18:31 <LenB> Rashmi we are using heading in the caption for the tab example. Shouldn't it be label?
16:19:51 <LenB> ... do example for modals: we're talking about headings in the section. Are we recommending the modal heading to be <h1>? The context is confusing.
16:20:40 <LenB> julierawe the overall goal here is that users need to know where they are. Use a heading to orient them.  Could be that a modal example is a bad example.
16:21:48 <LenB> LenB I recommend moving away from modal since there are 2 different 'standards' for how these headings are coded.
16:23:39 <JenniferR> q+
16:25:19 <LenB> julierawe one of Lisa's previous examples could be used for a don't example. We need to creat a do example that tells you where you are and a don't example that is confusing.
16:25:49 <LenB> ack JenniferR
16:26:35 <LenB> JenniferR as modal this is confusing becuase it doesn't have any text beyond the heading. The do example is not best practice.
16:27:26 <LenB> julierawe should we turn these into page examples?
16:29:32 <LenB> Rashmi in the original content usable we say 'page headings and signposts'.
16:30:01 <JenniferR> I would expect "service not available" to be an error not a heading
16:31:05 <LenB> ... when I check the whole pattern, the modal is confusing to me. In our text we are talking about the heading level, but the example is talking about the content in the heading.
16:32:46 <LenB> julierawe this guidance is really about the main title - the <h1>.
16:33:19 <LenB> JenniferR can a 404 page example work?
16:35:19 <LenB> julierawe can we come up with a pair of examples: do example showing a clear H1 and a don't example showing vague H1
16:37:04 <julierawe> Action item: JenniferR to think about alternative example for the "Do" and "Don't" instead of "Service not available." Can insert screenshots to help Gareth think about illustrations.
16:40:25 <JenniferR> q+
16:41:01 <julierawe> ack JenniferR
16:41:55 <LenB> LenB we need to make sure we don't make the claim that every page has to have <H1> (news site landing pages). Here we need to say that <h1> can help orient users.
16:42:12 <LenB> julierawe we can give some wiggle room in the text and provide a clear <h1> example.
16:42:39 <LenB> JenniferR would it be OK to use an <h2> example instead.
16:43:51 <LenB> julierawe what we don't want to do is to make this about headings on the page. We are trying to show an example that helps users get oriented at the top of the page - hence our <h1> thinking.
16:45:43 <LenB> Rashmi can we use the phrase 'suitable heading'?
16:46:32 <LenB> julierawe not sure that 'suitable' would be clear enough. We're trying to avoid vague headings. Using the word 'specific' may be better.
16:49:05 <LenB> ...progress bar will become the bullet in our example section.
16:49:08 <JenniferR> +1 to the one with the buttons being preferred
16:49:27 <LenB> julierawe should use the next and back buttons?
16:49:41 <LenB> Rashmi I prefer back and next.
16:49:44 <LenB> +!
16:49:47 <LenB> +1
16:51:05 <LenB> @Rahsmi should the 'what is your occupation?' be the form title?
16:51:19 <LenB> @Lenb I took that as the field label an not the form heading.
16:52:07 <LenB> julierawe we need streamline these to keep people focused. Is this example good enough for our purposes?
16:53:44 <julierawe> q?
16:54:30 <LenB> Rashmi I don't think these examples are consistent, yet with the rest of the things we're saying. We say people should have headings and then we don't show one in this example.
16:55:13 <LenB> LenB I see that and then also wonder how we can keep making snippets of a page for these examples without complicating or contradicting our own words.
16:56:38 <julierawe> present+ tburtin
16:57:15 <LenB> Rashmi shared the step-by-step indicator from WAI Forms tutorials.
16:57:44 <LenB> julierawe maybe adding 'names' to the step label would help us.
16:58:43 <LenB> JenniferR the other thing that feels confusing is the last caret makes it feel like we're not showing people the whole progress bar.
16:59:14 <LenB> julierawe we can rename the steps and remove the caret after step 3/
17:03:52 <LenB> Action Item: Rashmi to think of good examples to share next week with Gareth.
17:04:58 <julierawe> Action itme: Rashmi to suggest a specific form with a clear purpose and to suggest step names so Gareth can rework the illustration.
17:06:26 <julierawe> Action item: Recruit a volunteer to draft definition of "signposts"
17:06:55 <julierawe> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/29-coga-minutes.html julierawe
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