14:45:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
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14:45:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
14:45:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
14:45:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
14:45:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
14:46:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/bc0bed33-fd93-40a6-95bb-10f27c641863/20260128T100000/
14:46:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
15:00:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
15:01:04 <smaug> just a sec
15:01:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:01:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ vmpstr
15:01:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:03:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Recharter https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/515
15:03:35 <plh> Patrick: outstanding on which types of gestures.
15:03:50 <plh> s/outstanding/outstanding document/
15:03:54 <flackr> flackr has joined #pointerevents
15:03:58 <flackr> present+
15:03:58 <plh> ... that's WIP on my part
15:04:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: filed this a few minutes ago https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/636
15:06:12 <plh> Patrick: looking at at the various available events and refining them
15:06:31 <plh> ... mostly Apple and Hanner.js
15:06:40 <plh> s/Hanner/Hammer/
15:07:07 <plh> ... taking ideas from both
15:07:38 <plh> ... pan is probably not needed
15:08:23 <plh> flackr: we could eventually add more events, like skills. not necessary for our first iteration
15:09:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: might be good to come up with user requirements/technical requirements to focus our effort / give us a plan
15:09:55 <plh> patrick: we talked about swipe, rotation, and zoom
15:10:28 <plh> ... we would start with swipe (multiple pointers or not?)
15:11:05 <plh> ... an other idea: things to do with coalesced events, ie adding references to them
15:11:21 <plh> ... ie finding the event streams for each individual gesture
15:11:50 <plh> flackr: coalesced would give a list of gesture, and you can dig further
15:12:18 <plh> ... mostly take the apple thing and improving will be very amenable to them
15:12:53 <plh> Patrick: you mentioned swipe could be detected with those 2
15:13:33 <plh> mustaq: from dev prospective, [...]
15:14:06 <plh> flackr: hammer swipe one fires continuously ?
15:14:14 <plh> patrick: I think it fires at the end
15:14:53 <plh> ... dev just want to know if the user swiped left
15:15:14 <plh> flackr: they'll need feedback, ie the user is swiping. so some panning, then swipe
15:16:49 <plh> [from higher events to the underlying ones: swipe, pan, [...], click]
15:17:09 <plh> Patrick_H_Lauke: you could do that today...
15:17:19 <plh> flackr: pinch, zoom, rotate are difficult
15:17:25 <plh> Patrick_H_Lauke: yes, 2 or more fingers
15:17:44 <plh> mustaq: higher level events are more dev friendly
15:18:06 <plh> Patrick_H_Lauke: don't know if there is a react module for this
15:18:23 <mustaq> One data point for us could be: how popular the hammer.js model is.
15:19:31 <plh> plh: we should also look at other platforms (android, ios, etc.)
15:19:50 <plh> flackr: chrome was built on android events
15:20:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: plh
15:20:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: plh
15:22:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> flackr: having single event may be easier, rather than different events for different types/discrete events
15:22:53 <plh> Patrick_H_Lauke: depends on use cases, dev will want different level of events
15:23:57 <plh> philippe: we need use cases and requirements
15:27:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: there is a w3c breakout day end of march. we could organise a breakout to get feedback / get requirements
15:29:14 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2026
15:30:11 <plh> deadline for proposals is 10 March
15:32:14 <mustaq> My quick read of Android doc suggests their model sits between Apple's and Hammer.js's: onScaleBegin...onScale...onScaleEnd
15:32:16 <mustaq> https://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/ScaleGestureDetector.OnScaleGestureListener
15:35:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: patrick to create an issue in PE repo about breakout session. group to start thinking about use cases, approaches, etc
15:36:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Follow-up from UI Events meeting https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iRFgqtReyomoCwZFEdRUdoW1ManD5t656CVUGJm7Xos/
15:37:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: not done addressing all feedback from 2 weeks ago, but working through. DOMActivate there's now issue in HTML specification. need to still add warnings in sections.
15:37:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: talked to francois about all the dependencies
15:38:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: short story, not done, should be done in 2 weeks / will try, so potentially before next UI events call we have things ready to merge after that
15:39:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: will have to have a separate deeper discussion about default action. only pointing to the definition for now, but will want to tackle it more fundamentally
15:39:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: WPTs
15:40:06 <plh> https://w3c.github.io/pointereventswg/implementation-reports/wpt-pointerevents-2026-01-25.html
15:40:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i generated the wpt report for what i think is the relevant list of tests for v3
15:41:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: plenty of fails, but overall seems "ok"
15:41:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: cases where we don't have 2 implementations, but mostly seems down to bugs rather than anything else
15:43:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: if group is ok with it, i'd like to ask for PE v3 to go through. deprecate v2 and tell people to use v3. then we can forget about v3
15:43:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: we happy to say the results are good enough? or we want to wait?
15:43:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: worth mentioning as well that some fails MAY be down to test harness
15:44:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: would be good to identify which ones. i think the one related to keys (alt/control/meta/shift). lot of failures there
15:45:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: lot of missing test results, i'm guessing it's down to harness
15:45:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: all of the offset-x / offset-y, guess it's because we don't use them in pointer events
15:46:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: in any case, i believe this is good enough.
15:47:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: do you want more time to look at the results, to see if you want to improve them?
15:48:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: we don't need perfection, just demonstrating there's nothing wrong with the spec
15:48:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: will take a look at some more failures...
15:48:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: up to the group to decide
15:49:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: realistically, we're probably not going to fundamentally fix many more in the next 2 weeks or so. also, next interop coming up, so we could change them further
15:49:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: we can say we'll cover some of these in interop 2026
15:50:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: let's give it another 2 weeks, then at next meeting have a go/no go decision
15:50:48 <smaug> Ok, in Firefox many of the pen tests are ""Error: action_sequence() is not implemented by testdriver-vendor.js""
15:50:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: and i can easily regenerate report, automatically updates
15:51:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: for next meeting, review WPT test results
15:52:22 <smaug> mustaq: pointerevent_pointerrawupdate_coalesced_events_attributes.https.html?touch is also surprising
15:52:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
15:53:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:53:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:53:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:53:21 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/28-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:53:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: patrick to create an issue in PE repo about breakout session. group to start thinking about use cases, approaches, etc [1]
15:53:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/28-pointerevents-irc#T15-35-43
15:53:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: for next meeting, review WPT test results [2]
15:53:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/28-pointerevents-irc#T15-51-22
15:53:22 <smaug> Patrick_H_Lauke: hmm, could we use some automatic AI minuting ? WHATNOT uses that, has been working, I think, relatively well