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15:02:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
15:02:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:02:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:02:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:03:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:03:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:03:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/bc0bed33-fd93-40a6-95bb-10f27c641863/20260114T100000/
15:03:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:03:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:04:16 <vmpstr> vmpstr has joined #pointerevents
15:04:36 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Recharter https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/515
15:05:13 <mustaq> present+ vmpstr
15:10:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: all wording changes to the charter that we discussed/were raised have been done. last outstanding piece is a rough prototypical "here's the list of events for gestures we want to cover"
15:10:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [some discussion on which types of events we want - rotate/zoom and possibly swipe, or is swipe the same-ish - moving centroid]
15:11:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Patrick to draft gesture event outline for next meeting
15:11:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Follow-up from UI Events meeting https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iRFgqtReyomoCwZFEdRUdoW1ManD5t656CVUGJm7Xos/
15:12:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i have a PR for UI events https://github.com/w3c/uievents/pull/411 to make sure it removes the bits we're taking into PE
15:12:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: still need to figure out pointerlock (trying to get webapps to move that out)
15:13:09 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: we'll keep linking to the external algos. once moved, the link will update
15:13:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: some like focusable area defined in HTML,but they're not exporting them. we can either link, or ask HTML spec to export
15:13:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: looked a bit at default action idea
15:14:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> s/focusable area/focusable area and click-focusable
15:15:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: if you look at DOM spec it handles the idea of default action already. just that it calls it activation behaviour
15:15:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: that's only for click
15:16:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: there's different types ... activation behaviour, and LEGACY activation behaviour. trusted behaviour, cancelled not set to true.
15:16:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: all we need to do is define what the legacy activation behaviours are for click, and what the activation behaviours are for all other cases
15:16:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: am i correct? somebody double-check my understanding
15:17:26 <mustaq> https://w3c.github.io/uievents/#event-type-keydown
15:17:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: if i understand the dispatch behaviour, that's covered. legacy activation for click, and the others are for other events
15:17:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: in the default action of keydown it links to the activation behaviour
15:18:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> "Varies: beforeinput and input events; launch text composition system; blur and focus events; keypress event (if supported); activation behavior; other event"
15:19:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i believe one way out then is not to talk about default action, but talk about activation behaviour
15:19:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: but activation behaviour is specific to click. it assumes trusted events...
15:19:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: i believe it covers just things like click. doesn't handle text selection, or scrolling, or similar
15:20:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: then way forward may be to ask for a hook to handle these other cases, and we hook into that, rather than patching the dispatch algo ourselves
15:20:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#:~:text=Let%20isActivationEvent%20be%20true%2C%20if%20event%20is%20a%20MouseEvent%20object%20and%20event%E2%80%99s%20type%20attribute%20is%20%22click%22%3B%20otherwise%20false%2E
15:21:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: we get dispatch algo updated to take into account those default actions. or we clarify that these are actions after the dispatch
15:21:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: the action does happen in between events though...
15:21:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: but after the relevant event was sent...
15:22:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: yes, but not after all events...so there's some specific order/timing
15:22:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: no strong feeling if it needs to be in the dispatch, or after the dispatch...
15:23:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: assuming it's trusted, cancelable flag set to false, it then happens after dispatch...
15:23:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i'll see what that looks like, but if not we need to modify dispatch...
15:26:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: hit-test algo is only used by mouse events. i moved it to PE, but then realised it conflicts with our glossary. removed our glossary...
15:26:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: it should all be the same thing. think for longest time it didn't exist other than SVG
15:28:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: DOMActivate - as part of legacy bits, the DOMActivate is still present in ui events. but you're not supposed to use that anymore in preference of click. do we want it, or leave it? legacy section
15:29:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: should probably go to HTML...
15:30:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: yeah from memory this is the "click is not device agnostic as a term, let's invent something new" but that was too late. for history, still good to have that somewhere. probably HTML
15:31:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: so somebody should make a PR/proposal to HTML spec. if you know a contact with an editor at HTML spec, ask them...
15:31:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: not seeing any WPTs for DOMActivate...
15:31:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: i'll bring that up to the next UI events meeting next month
15:32:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: beyond that i think i'm done with the PR
15:32:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: we'll wait for next UI events meeting to merge
15:32:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: WPTs ... any idea what best approach might be? if we move them, would things break?
15:32:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: i'm worried about links to tests breaking
15:33:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: we could leave behind a text file pointing to the new location? i think it's nice to have the structure of WPT match the specs
15:34:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: should we wait for WPT move until things settle down?
15:34:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: spec move doesn't affect WPT. so what do we need to wait for?
15:35:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: should we wait until the ui events part is merged into PE and baked in
15:36:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: going to make PR against WPT. then we know we have all components (spec change, WPT), then we can decide on sequencing
15:36:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: other consideration is MDN, as they link to tests and specs
15:37:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: also caniuse etc
15:37:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: need to make a list of what will be affected. like... for MDN, does it repoint automatically, or does it need a PR
15:38:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: we know what the anchor links are...maybe we can add in a mention about the move and point there
15:38:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: and that needs to only be a temporary thing
15:39:05 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: making a tasklist on the PR
15:40:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: caniuse seems to link to MDN
15:40:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: there's links to actual specs
15:41:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: there's a webDX community group. maybe reach out to them too
15:41:50 <flackr> https://github.com/mdn/content/ and https://github.com/web-platform-dx/web-features ?
15:43:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: two files in web-features that will need updating. just a one-line change
15:43:19 <flackr> https://github.com/web-platform-dx/web-features/blob/879469aaa3a54cb5c1c453e18f9b08548067f070/features/mouse-events.yml#L3 and https://github.com/web-platform-dx/web-features/blob/879469aaa3a54cb5c1c453e18f9b08548067f070/features/wheel-events.yml#L4
15:43:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: link those from the PR, if easy enough i can make a PR for those too
15:44:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: any other repos in web-platform-dx that might be relevant/need updates?
15:44:27 <mustaq> https://github.com/web-platform-dx
15:44:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: nothing seems to come up from a search
15:46:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: question about the larger picture - how will the PE spec itself "work" structure wise / logically
15:46:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> olli: maybe we should add a note warning that things are still in progress
15:47:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rob: keep sections, but note that it's WIP
15:48:28 <mustaq> +1, a note for each top level section make sense.
15:48:52 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: was also thinking that we may need an update to the prose at the start of the spec, to explain why all of a sudden we also have mouse and wheel stuff
15:49:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: WPTs
15:50:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: i looked into the non-standard tests ... we essentially we don't the non-standard part inthe stable part ofthe spec. will do a PR
15:51:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> plh: still need to do implementation report, taking results and then filtering things we don't cover in the spec
15:52:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> mustaq: moving the non-standard tests that are in tentative, and ignore the touch-action ones for values that are not in level 3, that should be complete
15:53:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:58:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:58:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2026/01/14-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:58:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:58:35 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/14-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:58:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Patrick to draft gesture event outline for next meeting [1]
15:58:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2026/01/14-pointerevents-irc#T15-11-06